Screenwriters

Alex Ferrari 1:49
Enjoy today's episode with guest host Dave Bullis.

Dave Bullis 1:54
In this next episode, I have a filmmaker who comes to us from Louisville, Kentucky. He lives in New York now. He has worked with some of the biggest directors of all time. He's worked on as a production manager, Production Coordinator. He's worked as a PA. He's worked his way up, and he's also made his own movie. And we talked about how he found time to actually write this thing as he as he's going to all these different productions and what, what did he learn by reading all these scripts and all this other good stuff. So sit back and get ready to hear a tale about two filmmakers, each of whom has a movie called split. This isn't split the one with Emily Chameleon, by the way, if you listen to the episode with producer Mark bianstock, I was actually his ta when he was teaching at Drexel University here in Philadelphia. It's great episode, by the way. We kind of brush on that in this episode. But this is a different split. This is a bowl. This is the romantic bowling movie, split with guest Jamie Buckner,

Jamie Buckner 2:57
Yeah, I was gonna say many, few, you know, really, it's, you know, what's a number? What's the number of how many years ago? Yes, so there are many short and long versions of this, but so effectively, I, back in high school, sort of came to this revelation. Well, I guess it was kind of early college, trying to figure out a college major. Basically, I started as an art major thinking, like, Okay, I like to draw. Maybe I could. I kind of wanted to draw comics for a little while. Didn't really tried that for a little bit. Found that that wasn't for me. And was like, All right, maybe I'll be a music major. I love making music. I've been playing bass and guitar for a while. I mean, like, learn the actual like, mathematics of music and like, learn to read it and learn the theory and all that sort of stuff. Got into that that wasn't for me. Thought I was gonna be architect for a while, just kind of dabbled in so many different things. And it just sort of dawned on me at one point, I think it was just mid conversation with a friend about how I had always been really into movies, just as of just a thing, just like I was like, the guy that people talk to about movies, I was, like, really into particular directors and particular types of genres and, like, all these things. Like, I was just one of those kids back in the 90s that was just, you know, I'm sure you count yourself amongst this number. That was just, like, one of the, you like, oh yeah, the movie guy, that's Jamie. You'll talk to Jamie. I'll tell you all about, like, you know, whatever different Spielberg, you know, Tarantino, coming around at the time, you know, like, down till, you know, like I was getting into Sturges and, like, Truffaut and stuff like that, like whatever, just all of the, like early days, like film nerds, stuff. And it sort of dawned on me at a certain point that all of these things that I'd been dabbling in, that I was sort of interested in, from a creative, creative way of looking at things, all sort of came together in this one medium. All sort of were just like, you know, storyboarding is drawing, you know, music is heavily involved in, you know, you know, and even photography, it just basically everything that I really sort of wanted to do, but didn't want to hard commit to one or the other, all sort of came together in this one thing that I already loved. Loved. So I went to Northern Kentucky University up by Cincinnati, which did not have a film program, but what did have a terrific theater program, and had what was is now known as an informal informatics, immediate program, but back in the day was when I was going, there was just a communications, radio and television communications program. Took all of the film ish, movie ish classes that I could screenwriting, playwriting, all that sort of stuff as well. Sort of made the best of what was available there. And read a lot of books on my own, screenwriting books, you know, production books, film theory books, etc, so on. And one day, as I was working in a Sunglass Hut in downtown Cincinnati. I saw in the tower place mall that I was working in, there was a flyer for people to come to a certain Hotel on a certain day to be extras in the movie Seabiscuit, this horse racing movie that was shooting down in Lexington. So I go, turns out I fit the costume parameters, which is really all you needed to do to be a part of that. And I went and was an extra in the Ruby sea biscuit in freezing cold November of 2002 I believe, and maybe three. Think it was 2002 but I got down there, I slept on the floor of my friend's dorm room at Eastern Kentucky University, and I bugged the Holy hell out of all of the production people down there until they would give me the time of day. I made just enough friends to make some more friends from there to make some more friends. From there started working as a camera person, camera PA, as I was also Moon mining as a date school teacher during the day at my old high school, worked on an indie project for a director that is also from Louisville, who's a good friend of mine now, who we've actually worked on several other projects together, so on and so forth. Did as many projects as I could in Kentucky, ultimately decided to move to New York versus LA. Came up to New York, worked on my first production up here, which was this movie that was a remake of the honeymooners called the honeymooners, with like John Leguizamo and Cedric the Entertainer, I believe. But that was a few weeks. It was my first job. My foot was in the door up there, up here in New York, that happened to be happening in the same building as the production office for War of the Worlds. They called downstairs and were like, Do you have any pas that are, you know, not terrible. Luckily, they threw my name in there. I worked on more of the worlds for a little while. I have some cool stories from that that was fun. Office uptown for the new Martin Scorsese movie. The Departed calls same question. Do you have any pas that aren't awful? And they're like, Yeah, this kid's not terrible. We dig him. He's kind of fun to be around, and he doesn't screw things up too bad. So I end up working on the departed for almost a year, and then another Warner Brothers movie comes after that, called August Rush. So we stay in the same office, we work on that, and I'm now in with this team, and we roll on from another production to another production, and then I, you know, and the resume kind of speaks for itself. From there, it just kind of just becomes this. You work with enough people, and they get jobs, and they call and see what you're doing, and you go, and you bounce onto that, and you bounce onto that. And all the while I was still working on my own things and shooting music videos for friends bands, between jobs and doing little shorts when I could doing those silly little like make a movie in a weekend, 48 hour projects. And all that time working on this, rewriting, rewriting, reworking, planning for split, my first feature, which we just put out last August. So that is sort of the, I'm sure I missed some things, but that is basically the trajectory of how I got here.

Dave Bullis 8:37
Yeah, I see I'm actually looking at your IMDB right now, and like you were production coordinator on John Wick Chapter Two, I actually had the writer of John Wick one and two, Derek holstead, on the podcast before.

Jamie Buckner 8:49
How is he's like, the coolest guy on the planet. He found out me and one of our co workers on that was from Kentucky, and he bought us a bottle of Woodford Reserve bourbon that I had somehow never seen, I'd never seen this size available, this size of bottle, and we somehow managed to go through almost all of it over the course of late nights and Met Office. But no, I Derek is the coolest guy too. He would just like, you know, I'm just some random schmo working on the production. He has no reason to be sitting there and shooting, you know, shooting the breeze with us until the wee hours of the night. But we would just talk about movies, and I think we talked about the Twilight Zone in particular episodes we loved for like, two hours one night. He's just, what a red guy that Derek is, right? I'm sure I gotta go back and listen to that episode. I didn't realize you had him on. That's cool, yeah,

Dave Bullis 9:38
Really, really cool guy. And I got introduced to him through another writer friend of ours. And I was like, This guy's not gonna say yes to come down and show them with me. And he was like, Yeah, I love to Yeah. Of course he will. Yeah. He's great, yeah, fantastic guy. And I'm actually really glad to the John Wick both one and two were box office hits as well as critical hits, because I love to see when good things happen to good people

Jamie Buckner 10:08
Oh yeah, absolutely. Oh yeah. You always, you always, you know, you always want that to be the case. Like, it's funny. I've seen, I've seen it go all different sorts of directions. Where the people you know, again, on this in the spirit of positivity, I won't necessarily name names, and people who aren't such great salt of the earth, people like your Derek colestes of the world, have success, and you're kind of like, yeah, all right, that's going to perpetuate some bad behavior. Or I've also seen some people that are really, really terrific, like, just really great, really fun, really talented people, and then in these tank and it's, that's a bummer to see, too. But so, yeah, you when the, when the when the optimum scenario happens, and it's just really good people make really good work, and it's really successful. It's, that's, that's what we're all hoping for, of course,

Dave Bullis 10:55
Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, I just going back to your career, you know, as you as, you know, you worked on as crew for all these films. Again, I'm looking at your IMDB, you know, how did you find the time to actually sit down and write splits? I mean, I know it started off as a short film before you made it into a feature. So, you know, back in 2010 you know, when you made this short where, you know, how did you have find the time between all these, these jobs? You know, because it seems like you're going from jobs. Going from job to job, you know, production and production. So how did you find the time to actually sit down and write, write this out?

Jamie Buckner 11:27
You know, you just kind of have to the original script. I've had sort of with me for a while, like from when I first started working in production, basically. And it's really just been a matter of, like, you just have to, if you if what you want to do is, is be creative, and you don't want to, because it's really easy to get stuck. I could just completely just rest on my laurels, keep working, and keep doing what I do well, and just, you know, and I'll eventually, you know, you know, just keep production, managing, supervising and things, and wine producing smaller things, and then I'm mind producing bigger things. And then I'm on to, you know, I could do that. And next thing, you know, I'll blink. I'm 60 years old, and I'm doing really well, but not exactly what I want to be doing. So if you really want to, and it's just really easy to get stuck in any particular discipline, you know, like, there's people who get stuck in the camera department who would rather be, you know, writing or directing or whatever, and that's not a terrible transition. But like, there are people you know that end up being key grips or gaffers that feel like they can't make the transition because the money gets good at a certain point and they just kind of keep working. Or art department locations, you know, you can, you kind of, there's so many different little specific disciplines that are super important to various productions. And you don't want to make light of any of those at all, but if it's not where your heart is 100% you just kind of always have to find the time when you can without compromising your, you know, your day to day work. I just, I just always prioritize finding the time whenever I could to go back and do a little rewriting or go back and do a little, you know, prep work of like, you know, trying to figure out where locations would be. And we're talking about over the course of years and years, you know, like, and talking to different actors and talking to different writers, helping give me notes, and, you know, producers talking about how, like, you know, how do you raise money for these things? How do you set up a, you know, a small corporate, you know, because you end up being a small business, basically, when you make a movie, not even basically, you are a small business. You have to, you have to basically teach yourself how to be an entrepreneur in a very sort of tweaked way. But, um, you really, I just, I just kind of made the time, you know, like, if I, if we got done shooting early on a production, and, like, I had a few hours left in the office, and everybody was like, oh, quit in time. I'm going to happy hour, I would, you know, be like, All right, guys, great. Just, you know, leave one light on. I stay here for five or six hours and, you know, like, pound away on my script. They're like, you know, I also would work on other scripts to, sort of like, you know, get a fresh eye on a different story, and sort of think outside of the like, bowling rom com box and like, go and, like, do a script contest, and like, write a horror movie in 10 pages, and then that would somehow inform a joke somewhere within, you know. So you really just sort of have to always the creative muscle I I like to think and, you know, there's much wiser people that can probably say it much better than me, but I think the creative muscle, and like the energy that you, that you put into it, are just very important. It has to be constant, because it's like a muscle, you know, it's exactly like, it's exactly what it is like. It will atrophy if you don't exercise it regularly. So as far as how I did it, I don't, I don't know, just basically every moment that I've can find free that, you know, you also find time for rest too. Like, I'm not just completely 24/7 like you get, you got to be wise enough to know when to take a break. When you're actually burning the candle at both ends and you're compromising other parts of your life, or you're compromising the creativity, or you're compromising the paycheck job, you know? And none of those things can happen, so you just have to be very keenly aware of how important rest is with all this as well. But whenever I had an opportunity, I'd be writing or talking to people about raising money or, you know, talking to actors, or talking a little little bit of this, little bit of that. And then it finally came to a point where I thought, okay, if we're going to do this, let's take the first, like, seven or eight pages. I forget what it was of the script. Let's do what I think I'd heard other people do before at that point. And I was like, I think we're gonna have to do a Kickstarter to raise enough money to start raising money. Because I knew it would cost a little money to get a lawyer, to start a company to, you know, get a couple wheels rolling to then, like, then be able to go out and, like, actually raise private equity. So I was like, I think I want to do a Kickstarter to raise money in order to start raising real money. In order to do that, I would like to do what I started referring people called it a sizzle reel. I hate the term sizzle reel because it's just not what this was, and people kept referring to it as that. And I get the place of a sizzle reel. I don't even know if people say that anymore, but it just drove me crazy. I don't think. I don't know.

Dave Bullis 16:18
It's called proof of concept now

Jamie Buckner 16:20
That's okay, see, that's what I started calling it, not even knowing anyone called that that. So that's funny, because I was just like, This is my, this, this will be, like, my, my, like, proof of concept piece. This will be my, hey, we're gonna make a bowling rom com. Oh, does that sound silly? Well, I don't think it's completely silly. Here's exactly what I had in mind, so that you can put in front of, like, a potential investor or an actor. This is what I have in mind. So we shot that two days over a weekend in Queen. I still stand that. I think I'm the only person ever to shoot Queens for Kentucky. So we shot this in like a double decker bowling alley way out in Queens with it's so funny that short, just the cast that we got for that short is now all super famous, which is hilarious, so, but it was so there was just this killer group of people called in all these favors, like one of the top 80s in New York. I was, is just a buddy of mine. I was like, Hey, you wouldn't come do this on a weekend, would you? He's like, Yeah, I'm free. Whatever. That's fine. And it's like, when it's like, when it's like when you shoot some you shoot something in New York, or you shoot something in LA people, you know, it's, it's oddly, it's good, not odd at all, actually, come to think of it, it's just it's easier to get top crew, top cast. Not that, not that there's not amazing people all over the country, and specifically in Kentucky, we had a great group. But like, as far as, like, these people that are, like, living, eating, breathing, the industry and doing it, like, on a sort of, like, a more visible skit, national and global scale, these people live in New York and LA, and if you're shooting in New York or LA, they're much more ready to just be like, Yeah, cool. Can I just hop on the subway and get there? Fine, yeah, I'll be there, whatever. It's no big deal. You can pay me whatever you can. It's fine if you know, it gets a little trickier when you're like, Hey, can you come to three weeks for Kentucky, and I'll put you in a hotel and whatever. They're like, Oh, I don't know, my kids are in school, or I got this other thing going, whereas, if it's just down the street, you know, they're much more, they're much more game for it. So, yeah. So in that short, we've got, like, Tommy Sadosky, who's now on life in pieces, and, like, you know, has just got his feet kicked up in CBS heaven. And you know, Keith Powell, who was on 30 rock, Mike Chernis, who, you know, Orange is the New Black. Like, just amazing. But, so, yeah, so we did the short, and then, oh my god, I totally forgot the question. Listen to me rambling. What was your What was your

Dave Bullis 18:38
Well, I was just about how you found time to actually write in between jobs.

Jamie Buckner 18:48
Oh, yeah, do you see how off topic I got on that? I don't know. Man, I don't really have a great answer for it. Just, you just kind of have to find it. You just have to make the time, you know, well.

Dave Bullis 19:02
And you know, you touched on something too that I previous guest, James Altucher, he touched on this as well. And creativity is he calls it a muscle. He calls it his idea muscle of coming up with these ideas. And you know, he's like, that's what happens. It atrophies if you don't use it. And so when you were saying that, I'm like, That's exactly the way he puts it as well.

Jamie Buckner 19:24
Yeah. I mean, it's just one of those things, and I feel it sometimes it well, it's also one of those things where, if you're gonna be in this industry, how do I say this in, like, a positive way? Because it's, it's, it is a positive thing. But saying it, and when I've said it previously, it kind of doesn't sound terribly positive. You sort of have to be crazy. You sort of have to be a little bit you. Obsessed and stubborn and just in order to do this business, in order to live and eat and breathe it and just have it be what you do. And it took me a few years to get to the points where finally, like I was just like, This is what I do. I am a filmmaker. I am a storyteller. I am a movie, TV, you know, a new media, like, whatever, like, I've lost. I have no other bankable skills. I'm literally, this is just what I do. And in order to sort of be in it to that level, you kind of have to have no other options. Because there are certainly days when I have, say, like, specifically on like, certain productions, if, like, some nightmare thing happens with like, an actor or producer's travel or, like, you know, is something bad happens on set with a piece of equipment. Is any number of things that I could tell you probably 100 stories. Like, you know, I'm living the dream. I do what I love for a living. But there's just, like, anything else, like, there's, you know, there's crappy days where I'm like, Man, I wish I could just work at a call center and go home at 530 every day and, like, go to happy hours and just like, have a nice, happy little life. Still live in Kentucky, just live down the street from my parents, go to like, you know, like, I kind of, there's part of me certainly at times that are just like, Wouldn't life just be easier if I would be okay doing not all of this? And the answer is, yeah, maybe. But I just, I internally, don't I if I was not doing this? And one is not doing this, exhaustive, sometimes insane, you know, often being asked to pull off the impossible if I wasn't doing this production thing, if I wasn't doing the storytelling thing. And this is including, you know, my, like, day job production work on, like, other bigger productions, and my own work. You know, like, I barely left my apartment yesterday. I finally had to leave and go outside and walk the dog at 10:30pm because I'd been stuck in here writing my next writing this next script all day. Yesterday, I woke up at eight o'clock in the morning, and I was just here like a shut in, just all day. And it's you just kind of have to have a little bit, you just got to be a little bit off, but in all the right ways, you know, and and it's, and it's, and I wouldn't trade it for the world, but there's certainly times where I'm just like, Oh, why can't I just go and work at, why can't my dad worked at, like, a GE assembly line for 30-40, years in Kentucky, like, making washing machines. You know what? He's perfectly happy now he's retired. He watches Westerns all day. Goes on long walks. I just, you know. I just, you know, I can't even picture myself ever retired. People like, what are you gonna do? You know, you know when you retire? And I'm like, who retires from making movies? We're all like, blessed with this opportunity to do this, I'll probably do this until they, like, drag me lifeless off of the set somewhere. Like, I don't know why I would ever retire from it. I just like, it's, I'm doing it, but if you're not doing it because you love it, then then you're legitimately a crazy person, because go do something else. It is. It is hard, you know, hard. I stay away from the word hard people. This always comes up when people are talking about, Oh, how'd you raise money for the movie? And, you know, people, oh, raising money is the hardest part. Raising money is hard. I don't like to call anything that we do. And I just slipped up on my own, on my own advice there. I hate calling anything that we do hard, because, you know, digging ditches is hard. You know, working in the coal mines is hard. Construction work is hard. You know, working in the heat and not having a job and living in a third world country, you know that that stuff is all hard. What we do is we're blessed to be able to like, you know, it to do what we do for a living. You know, I show up to work and there's like a truck full of catering that will make me whatever I want. I stay away from the word hard with anything that we do, but it's but the hours are tough, and the sometimes the conditions are not ideal. So if you can be doing anything, and I've spoken to some college classes, I've, you know, told that, what would you recommend? If the you know, you know, whatever, like, there's always, like, the basic questions I'm like, if you think you can do anything else, if there is a world in which you do not have the internal drive, where you absolutely have to be doing this for, like, with all of who you are, you should 100% just go do that, because it's going to be easier. Again, easy, or whatever. You know I'm saying it's going to be, it's going to lead to sort of a emotionally and sort of is spiritually the right word if you're not going to be happy putting in what has to be put in. To work in this industry, then just don't do it. Don't put yourself through it. Because it can be, it can be, it can be pretty it can be pretty brutal to it to a degree. Just, you know, it's mostly just about the hours and the in the expectations of like, when people expect you to be available for them to certain degrees. And again, that's and sometimes, when I'm working in production, that's just people that are people that are creative types that I'm just like, No, I get it. Listen, especially since I left doing regular production, you know, regular, like, sort of like, my normal production stuff and went and made the feature, I'm like, well, listen, I get it. I'm then I was that guy, you know, and I was never, like, calling people at three o'clock in the morning and being like, you know, we need to change everything. But, you know, I got it. I was like, listen, the creative end of it and the production end of it feed into each other and definitely overlap in a lot of ways, but they also are. You're sort of serving different masters to a degree, but ultimately not. You're also serving the story. You're serving the product, the you're serving what goes on the screen. But anyway, again, I'm all over the place,

Dave Bullis 26:06
But it's all good, Jamie, I tend to have that effect on people.

Jamie Buckner 26:09
You're like a therapist. You're just giving me the opportunity to ramble

Dave Bullis 26:15
Honestly. If you go back and listen to episodes, like, one out of every two guests will say, Dave, I don't know why. Whenever I every time I come on your podcast, I just start rambling, or I go in these other directions or, you know, and I said, No, it's a I have that effect on people the you know, longer answers and stuff like that. I think it's a great thing, actually. So, I mean, it becomes a stream of consciousness, you know, and it's good make sure you get out here, is what I think. Oh, thank you very much, Jim. I appreciate that and that. You know, as we, as we talk about screenwriting, you know, I wanted to ask you, when you were working all these other different productions, you know, I'm sure at one point or another you got to read the screenplay, did that have like, a lot of effect on you? How of how to actually, you know, write screenplays because you because, you know you're actually seeing movies. I mean, you're beyond a reader at that point, because now you're actually, you know, hey, these movies are actually in production right now. So there has to be something valid about this screenplay. Did you ever get a chance to read the screenplays? And if so, you know, what did you take away from?

Jamie Buckner 27:14
Oh, I mean, I It's funny. I've worked with some people on productions that, you know, I'll be like, oh, and then, did you read this in the script? And this, I read them immediately. Sometimes before I even start. I It's one of the first things I asked when asked for when I'm even considering doing a project, be like, well, let me see the script. And if you know, if it makes sense and speaks to me, I mean, well, go back and look at my resume. They haven't all been me being really choosy about the content, but, but I try to be, I do try to, I do try to make sure that I it's something that I enjoy, work I would enjoy working on. So, yeah, I read the screenplays every time I have worked with people that don't know, because there's certain disciplines within the making of like a movie or TV show, where you don't necessarily have to read, like every so you show up to set people tell you what to do. It gets done. You go home, whatever, which is certain, certain crew positions. But with mine, as I've as I've progressed sort of up the proverbial ladder there. I yeah, I find it crucial to read the screenplay. And I mean, it's funny to me, it has definitely affected my writing. I one of the, or one of the first scripts I read that really affected me, and specifically, really affected split is I had the opportunity to work on Elizabethtown, which was Cameron Crowe, which is one of my still, is Say what you will about his recent missteps. We might call them, but I I love the guy. I think he's a master. I think he's great. The Showtime show roadies that he did, it was not perfect, but I enjoyed it, but so I got to work on Elizabethtown I was in. So I was so young at that point too. I was so just over the moon that one of my favorites, probably at the time, my favorite writer director, was coming to my town to make a movie, and it was amazing. And I got to work on it. He was super cool, and I have all these great stories from it, but I got to read that script, and I it was just this revelation of just like, wow, this is good writing. And I can't explain what it was about it. It was just the way it flowed, the way it felt like, it felt like Cameron Crowe as a director, that I knew him to be, just because I had seen his movies, was speaking directly to me, like was talking to me about the movie he was going to make as I was reading the script and I could hear the characters, and they were right in front of me, and it was just like this incredible experience where I was like, Oh, this is good writing. It's terrific. And then that was also a very interesting learning experience, because, say what you will, about that movie, it did not quite turn out to be as good of as a movie as I thought the screenplay was. I worked on a movie called was the business trip at certain point, and I guess it ended up being, it's a Vince Vaughn movie, unfinished business. I think they changed the title to that script. I read it on the train up to Boston as I was going to work on that movie, and I was laughing out loud like a crazy person, and it was one of the funniest things I had ever read. Somehow the movie came out, and it's like they had tried to take all the funny out of it. I don't know what happened in between, and I was there. I don't know if that's editorial. I don't know if that's, I don't know. And it was a great group of people working on it. It was a great group of actors. I I don't was very strange. But that movie, you know, and I think, I think that's the opinion held roundly about it, is that it just was not exactly an A plus effort from most of the people involved, which is very funny, because the script, the jokes were very tight. It was very it was a very funny thing. Like, I was like, this could be the next hangover. This is gonna be really funny. And then there it went. But, yeah, I always, you know, and I read them a little differently now, like, especially from a production standpoint, I'll be like reading through it, and I'll just start clocking annoying production. Things really go up. House on fire, okay, oh, there's some kids, all right, dogs, birds. That's annoying. Okay, glass breaking. You know, just like little things, you sort of read them differently. It's like when you make, you know, this experience too, when you make them, or when you work in this for a living, you're an annoying person to watch a movie with my wife, my wife's brother. Actually, at one point we left. I forget what movie we were saying. So my brother in law, we were walking out of something, we started talking about the movie me and Elizabeth, my wife. He He said to me, I always think I like a movie until I hear you guys talk about, so but, yeah, no, I it affected my writing, and has affected my writing immensely over time, just because I think a huge and again, I am, you know, and I want to write, and I want to be, you know, All I'm saying is, like, I'm not this, like, hugely accomplished screenwriter at this point. I have written a lot, and I do really enjoy writing, and I actually, that's probably my favorite of I don't know, I say that's my favorite of the disciplines, and it's the most rewarding to me. But then I'll get on a set, or I'll see something that I've done, and I'm like, oh, maybe directing, but I like directing stuff I wrote, so one feeds to the other, whatever. But it's, it's, um, I think that in order to, I think it's about 50-50, honestly. Like, in order for you to be a good writer, you have to constantly be writing, but you also have to constantly be reading the kind of work you want to be writing, you know, it's kind of like making it's, you know, it's like directing as well. Like, if you want to make movies, you want to make TV, you can't just create in a vacuum, you know? You should be watching quality work as well, and not necessarily mimicking that, but learning from that. You know what? Who was? Who? Who are we attributing this quote to? Now, I forget who exactly said it, but what does it artists create and geniuses steal? You know, Picasso, yeah, there you go. So it's, you're not necessarily, you're not necessarily reading or watching things to be able to imitate them, but, but you're going to pull these sort of universal ideas and truths out of them and sort of recreate them in your own way, you know, like, I mean, take, you know, split the bowling movie. We did, like it is a very, by the numbers, romantic comedy, but it was very important to me to, you know, spin the genre a little bit, not the least, you know, not the least of which by making it a bowling movie. But, you know, there are a couple other little points where it was just kind of like, I won't bore you with that, right in this particular instance, but it's like, but, yeah, the screenwriting being able to read the work, especially like you're saying, at the point where it's like, this is production ready. This is the script you're going to go actually make reading that work constantly over all of these years has 100% I think, improved my screenwriting. And it also, you know, it also makes it that much more like, frustrating or interesting, whatever. When you're working on something, you're just kind of, like, this isn't that good. Like, I don't understand why this got picked to be made, versus X, Y or Z blacklist script or, like. A so and so other script that is like just sitting on the shelf, you know, like, why is this happening, versus all of these other things that I know exist in the world? But, yeah, no. I mean, I don't know all that, all that in a very long way to say yes, I read the scripts. Yes, I feel like I get I'm very privileged to be able to have access to that material from production of production for sure.

Dave Bullis 35:22
Yeah, it's, you know true. When you're, when you're ever you're making something, you know, and you're, you want to see what else is out there. And you and now, because of the of the of the environment we live in, you know, you can go online, there's, there's screenplay resources all over the place, you know, you want to read the screenplay for whatever. You know, there's a good chance it's out there. And so what happened, you know, I've read screenplays that for unproduced, you know, movies. I've read screenplays for produced movies, all sorts of stuff. Oh, do you just hear that update? Whatever? Okay, cool. I just, I had a chime just come on my screen. On my desktop. It was like, Oh, you have a Java update. Sorry about that. I sort of

Jamie Buckner 35:57
Should insert it in post. You should make it some big annoying thing. No, I didn't hear anything at all.

Dave Bullis 36:01
It'll be like that bird, crow from, from Citizen Kane, where all of a sudden, you know, like it was just going all them, you know, they put that in there to wake up the audiences. That was, like, their shock, because they weren't one of the producers know that, yeah, one of the producers was like, I feel it's just going on a little long, so put that in there.

Jamie Buckner 36:20
That's so funny. I've often. This is apropos of nothing. I I always have my phone on vibrate, but I just because, you know, whatever, being on sets and everything, I just am afraid. But if I ever were to actually have a ringtone, I really want to find the Wilhelm scream and just have that be my ringtone, just that, like, you know, like the Star Wars, when the storm trooper gets hit that, like that movie trope that the sound, sound people always put in there that I go,

Dave Bullis 36:47
There's actually a good Wilhelm scream, YouTube cut, and somebody,

Jamie Buckner 36:52
Oh, yeah, all of them, right, yeah, it's so good. Yeah, that's amazing.

Dave Bullis 36:55
You know, it's funny. I do you remember ring back tones? I know there's now we're going in a weird direction. But do you remember ring back tones? Yeah, dude, I always thought, like, if you had a ring back tone, what if you just had something like the Wilhelm scream or something just completely ridiculous, just went over and over again, yeah? And the person's like, God damn, answer your phone.

Jamie Buckner 37:15
That would be great. Yeah? I guess those went away. I love it. Yeah, that's so funny. You're taking me. I just listened to the last episode too, and I it was, it was very funny, you and, oh, my god, I forgot the guy's name, whatever was on your poultry center. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Talking about old video stores. Again, we remember old video stores. I'm like, There's an old video store in my movie, guys, the old video stores are still around. Like, that video store we shot in is still in Louisville, Kentucky. But you talking about all the screenplay sources online too. Makes me think of when I first moved to New York and there was still, like, the tables of like, people in Times Square would just, like, set up with, like, a folding table, and it would just be like, printed copies of, like, Hey, do you want to read Citizen Kane? I've got it with a purple cover here for twist $20 you know. And you'd go and, like, peruse the, like, pile of printed out scripts. And that was 2000 like, the internet existed. It just, you know, whatever you're right, it's totally funny. Any script that you want to read, produced, unproduced, yeah. And we go through on, you know, like, on John Wick. On John Wick two, we had, like, a code name, and, like, there was all this security, all these different, you know, watermarking and, like, the intense amount of of technology and security that has to go into just keeping these things from keeping the wrong people from getting a hold of these things and just popping them up on the line. Because it's so easy for just like one person to just be like, Hey, here's the script for the new John Wick movie and just zip it up online really quick. So there's so much, from a production standpoint, we have to, like, so many hoops we have to jump through, just to keep, you know, from random, yay, who's like, getting a hold of a copy and just throwing it up onto one of those sites?

Dave Bullis 39:06
Yeah, I know exactly what you mean. That's what happened in Tarantino with with Hateful Eight. Was that something, you know, somebody, he gave the script out to somebody, and then somebody else was like, Hey, look at this tarantula script. And they, they photocopied it and put it up online.

Jamie Buckner 39:08
Yeah, yeah, it's, it's, it's, it's a whole other operator. I know, I have a bunch of friends, you know, because we're here in New York, and like all these Marvel Netflix shows come through here, and the the amount of security. It's, it blows your mind, how much security goes into just every little marvel production. It's the like, they are probably the most intense about it, for good reason, obviously. But they are, yeah, they're, it's, you know, it's a whole new world. You just have to and even like somebody, I feel like I had a friend work on one of the Transformers movies, and they were down to just like, yeah, we watermark and we also on like, a certain page within the draft. Will change one letter in a different spot on that same page for every person that gets a script. I'm like, seriously, is that a real I still don't know if that's a real thing. I don't even know how you would do that from a logistical standpoint, but yeah, people were crazy about the security man, I mean, but that would, you know that would blow a movie, honestly, or certain TV shows too. It's like of everybody. I also, though part of me finds it to be a little bit too much sometimes, because it's kind of like, listen how many how what percentage of your audience is for like, a TV show or a movie or whatever, what percentage of that audience is going to be like, Oh, my goodness, the script is online. I'm gonna go read that script. I don't know how much of the general public is actually reading screenplays, but yeah,

Dave Bullis 40:46
I think what they're afraid of is the sort of like, you know, nerd sites, so to speak like me, but like, if I read a screenplay, I wouldn't be like, Hey, here's all things. I think a lot of these sites that they're afraid of that read screenplays will talk about them, and then all of a sudden, you know, someone's watching a YouTube video like, you know, you know John Smith, who's not going to read the screenplay, but he's watching this YouTube video, and they're just talking about it, and now he's, oh, sure, yeah, that's fair, that. That's why I think that they've sort of become locked down. The friend of mine and I were joking, I think was actual, actually, Michael K Snyder, and we were joking around that the next big thing in film is going to be a department created just called film security, where there's like, literally, literally, like, somebody who's in charge, or our team in charge of scripts, everything else, and be like everybody else does their own thing now, and we'll hand we'll be the ones in charge of handing out the scripts, getting them back at the end of the day, prospecting the Wi Fi, all that good stuff, you know?

Jamie Buckner 41:45
Oh, that's, listen, there's, there's, there are things. There are productions that have that. There are productions that have that we I work on a show called billions, and several other shows around New York that I know of. Like we have, there's all kinds of little sub departments that didn't exist, that exists now, like, we have an entire green department, you know, we have a green, quote, unquote, but like, an eco minded department that goes from set to set, and, like, make sure that all of our trash is separated into, like, recyclables and compost and all of those things. And, you know, they're tracking the carbon footprint of the entire production, like, how many people stayed in hotel rooms that are how many square feet for how many nights? And who tracks? Nights, and who traveled on what planes? It's intense. And then, you know, down to what I'm surprised hasn't started happening is that you have to hire like a social media person on every production, you know, someone who is specifically in charge of, you know, like, Hey, keep our Instagram, Twitter, and, you know, Snapchat, whatever up like during production, so that anybody who cares to follow it can go follow it. You know that there's so many just the technology and the way that people are consuming things, the pace at which people are consuming and the volume at which they're consuming is it's just changing everything. So, yeah, there's departments are just gonna keep popping up until, like, we just have everything covered. There's just going to be 1000s of people working on every little TV show, which is only going to be good for people in my position, because it just means more work. So all good things,

Dave Bullis 43:12
Yeah. And also, I wanted to mention too, I when I was talking to Mike about but the video stores that were gone, I was just meeting like, stuff like Blockbuster Hollywood Video those guys, I mean, the small mom and pop places. I actually there's one right up the street from me. It's about 30 minutes away. But yeah, I know there's still places here and there, and I'm glad they're still open honestly, because honestly, those are the places that that, you know, I'm, you know, like Quentin Tarantino, he worked at a local video store and stuff like that. And I love just, you know, you know, honestly, I'm actually starting to go the other way, Jamie, with a lot of things. Like, I used to be in love with Amazon and how easy it was. Now, I'm now, I'm just like, I'd rather just go out now to a little mom and pop place and buy, buy whatever the hell I'm looking for.

Jamie Buckner 43:54
I, yeah, I'm, you know, it's, I go back and forth, because it's just so obviously, it's easy, it's amazing to do Amazon to order things online. And you know, and listen again, I'm in New York City. We like I barely even leave the apartment sometimes, because the food will come to me at three in the morning if I want it to, and whatever cuisine I like. So the ease is terrific, but I know exactly what you're saying, and I think I've reached a little bit of fatigue with it as well. I recently started really buckling down on ordering comics online, because I have a great little spot right down the street from me that's like a little indie comic shop that sells a lot of zines and sort of, you know, interesting, more highly curated sort of titles. But then, you know, I hop on the train and I get into Union Square, and I've got my little local comic shop here that has just everything under the sun. And I spent a good few years just ordering like, you know, like, oh, the new saga is out, or other new Walking Dead or, right? And I would just order it on Amazon. And now, you know, I've really, I've really, kind of changed my tone. I'm just like, why am I. It's right there. I should just go down the street support these local businesses. So, yeah, no, I totally get that. And I think, and I think that's a thing that that we're all probably going to start experiencing, and it's only going to be good for those little mom and pop businesses. I just, you know, brick and mortar stores. It you want to talk about a tangent. I could go off about how I'm just convinced we're all going to be living the movie wall e within the next, like 10 years. But you know, we all just fight the good fight best we can. But no, I'm totally on your on track with that. Same as you.

Dave Bullis 45:35
Yeah, I know Mark Zuckerberg. He announced his plan to sort of do away with the smartphone, and it's all about AR mixed with a little bit of VR mixed with a little bit of AI, and it's just like, I honestly, I don't think that maybe, if you, if we baby step this out, but I think, like, if you were to try to radically, just change things overnight, like, with it, with an AR, VR, AI combo, like, I think what he what He's trying to do where it's like, you know, because there's also a company that's trying to get rid of computers as we know them, and it's just going to become that an augmented reality system where you're just kind of, like, moving parts around, unless, like, Yeah, that might be good. But, you know, I don't know how long that's going to take for everyone to actually transition. I mean, my God, they just killed 56k modems in this country a while ago, right? I mean, analog and analog cable signals, though,

Jamie Buckner 46:29
Man, there's still, listen, there's still people all over, you know, not necessarily a ton of people on the coast, but there's people all over the, you know, the middle of this country that still have dial up internet, you know, like, it's, it's, I don't know, man, I don't think that's I even have. I have guys on set. I have guys that work on set still that I'll be like, Oh yeah, I'll email you a call sheet. No, no, I don't email you're gonna have to print me one. Like, who are you? How do you not have the email? But these people still exist. So I think that, you know the Zuckerbergs of the world, and you know Elon Musk and, like, everybody's techno technology, everyone is just sort of stuck in this loop of, like, it always has to keep going at this exponential rate that it's been going. And I'm not saying it needs to slow down, but I think, like, I have a lot of thoughts about VR that I just am convinced VR, a lot of people are really hitching their wagons to the VR thing. And I don't necessarily, I'm personally in this, I don't know. It's hard to when you when you're speaking from your own personal position, like, you know, it's hard to say, like, you know, maybe the kids will be really into VR. I don't like, I don't know, but I, as a person sitting at my age and what I do for a living, I do not ever think I am going to watch a movie specifically made, or a television show or anything like that that is specifically made for VR. I just, I just don't know that that content is ever going to catch on for me or people like me. I just don't think about, I don't think, but I was, but that being said, I do think that there are very incredible and there's a lot of potential for VR in a lot of ways because so I was out at Sundance, not just year, but the past year, and I got somehow another got looped in with, like the ILM people, and they were doing a VR like demonstration. I was like, All right, well, let me see what this is all about. It's IOM. I'll see. So I put on a helmet and whatever, and all of a sudden I'm on Tatooine, and there's BB eight, and this is great, coolest thing ever. So, and they were like, well, we do other movies too. And then all of a sudden I was walking around with a velociraptor. And I was like, All right, this is actually too nope, too real. Stop. I'm actually scared. Quit it. There's a velociraptor in my face. So, but they, you know, and I was just like, okay, cool. That was a fun trick, guys, thanks. And they were like, well, you work in movies, right? Yeah. I mean, that's sort of my thing. They were like, All right, well, let's talk about some practical implications. So then they start showing they flip it over to it was some production. I don't know if it was for an actual production or something that they had just sort of mocked up. But basically, if you're going to go, if you're working on a movie, and you're going to build, say, like in a, however many 100,000 foot warehouse, huge spaceship, or you're going to build a mansion set, or something like that. VR, they started showing me these, like schematics for these sets, but they actually had built the sets out entirely in VR, so that you could put a camera in a certain camera position see exactly what your shot was going to be on your fake set that hadn't been built yet, so that you could have every idea about every potential shot in your movie on this set that was completely not even existent yet, just through VR so that you wouldn't spend any money at all being like, oh, no, actually, that doesn't quite work. We're gonna have to rebuild her. Oh, the measurements aren't quite you do all of your pre planning in VR, and then you, you know, it's the whole like, measure twice, cut once thing you've measured a million times digitally. And then just go out and build the thing, and everything's gonna go exactly as planned, you know. And I'm sure that's not exactly how it works, but like, that kind of thing is a practical application that I think, and you think about that, like you can do that before you build a hospital. You can do that before you like, that's the real world stuff that I think VR is going to be huge for. I don't think VR is going to be a huge storytelling medium in the way that people are sort of hitching their wagon to, if that makes sense.

Dave Bullis 50:40
Yeah, yeah. I concur. I just, I, I think that VR is going to be a lot like what he was, or, you know, the glasses, and then they had to watch, you got to get the 3d TV, and then 3d you know, Blu ray and, and honestly, I've all the friends that I have who are huge into movies, the movie going experience, or at the movies every weekend, only one of them actually went out and actually bought something like that. And he, and he has a ton of disposable income where he can actually buy stuff like that. Because, like, honestly, even if I had like, a ton of extra money, I don't think I'd buy that. And there's and, you know, I just that same way I feel by VR I just would rather, you know, have a better story. And plus, I don't feel like having my eyeballs burned out every which way I keep turning because, like, smartphone screens are bad enough, and it's just like, I don't need to be staring at another screen for 12 hours, 14 hours a day. And, but, yeah, so, I mean, I definitely concur about that. I mean, honestly that. So that's why I think that, you know, it's a lot of the trial and error too. With technology. I know you mentioned technology, they always have to feel it has, always has to be pushed forward, but even if we just, you know, but I think it's more of it there are trying to push it forward. I agree with you on that, and I think, I think they realize too, like the Elon Musk's and Zuckerberg, it's gonna be a lot of trial and error. Because, I mean, Elon Musk is the CEO of three different companies, and I guarantee you, I honestly sometimes I think that he even knows he's overreaching. And I think he just keeps doing it for, you know, just because he either because he can, or maybe he just thinks, you know, if he throws up enough Hail Mary's, one of them has to pass, right?

Jamie Buckner 52:16
Right, right. Oh, absolutely, yeah. And hey, you know what? These are the people? These are the people, in large part, giving us a lot of this great stuff that, you know, listen, I am, look at what we're doing right now. I am sitting in New York City. You're sitting in Philadelphia. We I am speaking into the air in my apartment, and we are going to digitally project this to the world at some point. You know, it's, we're it's the whole Louis CK, actually, this is the email signature in my when I send an email, just says, sent from space, because of this whole Louis CK bit where he's talking about some guy yelling into his phone on the or is it yelling about the internet working on his on an airplane or something. It's just like, give it a second. It is going to space. Just give it half a second. So like, I'm all, I'm always the first person to just be like, we guys, we are living in the future. I talk to my I talked to one of the three robots I have in my house, and I asked that robot to turn the lights off when I go to sleep at night. You know. I talked to my Amazon Echo thing. And I say, Echo bedroom light off, and it goes off. And I genuinely that has not stopped being cool, you know, I gotta, I gotta, I gotta, I got a room, but it vacuums my floor. I got, you know, it's, you know, like, whatever, like we were living in the Jetsons guys, it officially happened, you know. And it's funny, you know, growing up around the same time as I think we did, you ever really, oh, flying cars, whatever? Guys flying who needs flying cars? That just sounds dangerous and terrible to me. We're talking to robots in our house telling them to do things, and we have all of the world's information at our fingertips. No longer will you be at a bar being like, oh, and what was that movie with the one guy and the thing, yeah, that you have that answer, anyone can pull the computer out of their pocket and have that answer in 10 seconds. You know, it's the future is now. And I, for one, just love it. And these are, you know, in large part, these are the guys who are making this happen. Look, this is so funny my echo, because, like, Star Trek, we've, we've called her a computer, so every time, yep, she just came on again. Sorry, anyway, but, man, you know, I try not to be like, All right, let's all slow down. It's all moving too quickly, because I love it. I love all the cool technology that that we're able to play with, especially within the especially within the storytelling space. Yeah, you know it's, it's all happening really fast. So it's like, maybe, instead of moving on to the next thing, let's try to perfect. Some of the things that we have, yeah, yeah, I don't know, but that's, that's, that's, I feel like, I feel like we've covered about 20 different conversations for another time, but we'll just dive, just diving into them all here. And I love that.

Dave Bullis 55:13
Yes, I do want to talk about split. I mean, you know, just sort of going back to split. I do want to say, you know, you shot your short film in 2010 and then in 2015 you actually made it into a feature film. And, you know, again, because I know we were talking about so many different topics, I'm like, we actually should talk about split

Jamie Buckner 55:32
Well, that's, I'm telling you, that's what the great interview you see somebody on like, like a Stephen Colbert or, like an old Letterman episode, and they'll just hit the very end, they're like, oh, right, in your album, let's talk, does your album come out? But yeah, we, I mean, we did, yeah, we did the short in 2010 we actually shot the movie. In 2012 came out in August, I think was August 2nd 2016 is about four years of post, which is what happens when you, you know, yeah, I'm sure it's been said on this podcast probably 100 times good, fast and cheap, you know. You know, I wasn't going to sacrifice good, so, or I wasn't going to sacrifice good, and I and I couldn't sacrifice cheap, so fast went out the window. So we had a lot of people working on favors. And you know, if you have somebody who's doing a lot of really great post production work for you, and then they're just like, hey, I have to go to Montreal to work on a movie that's gonna pay me a lot of money, and you're paying me none money, then I'm like, Alright, cool. Well, we'll just, I'll do maybe some sound work over here with this other you know, you just kind of have to. So it took us a little while to get it out into the world. But So yeah, we were, like, in post production, movie ready to go, you know, for the most part, and just sort of like having to get some other little pieces out. And then I saw, I think it was somebody just sent me a text or something with the trailer of, like, coming soon from midnight shop. No, you know what it was. It was a news story. It was like the announcement of the fact that he was gonna make a movie called split. And I was like, oh, boy, what's this gonna be, you know, and people, should we change the title? And I'm like, No, it's our title. We were here first. What are you talking about? But yeah, so, yeah, so we came out in 2016 and it's, yeah, it's been a fun little ride, man. It's, you know, still continuing. We are on, if you're an Amazon Prime subscriber, we are one of the one of the movies you can watch for free as part of your Amazon Prime subscription. We are also available to rent or purchase on iTunes. We're on this is actually something that's been amazing through the distribution process that I just so much of it's new to me, but this particular part, they're like, Okay, we're gonna put you so you're on iTunes. Like, okay, got it Xbox. Oh, you can, okay, that. Didn't know you could do that great PlayStation, that one too, great. Also voodoo. It's okay. What's that? It's Walmart streaming service. Oh, well, okay, cool. There's that I just learned about we're on probably, I think I want to say, like, 50 different platforms. I knew maybe three of them existed. So that's, that's been a fun little ride. But, yeah, man, it's, it's, it's just good, you know, we just made a cute little movie. Everything that I said from the beginning, I was like, listen, there's not enough bowling movies out there. I like rom coms. Let's make a bowling rom com so that we're not doing the exact same movie people have seen 100 times, and we're having a little fun with it. And I, you know, I want people to go on, like a date night, or I want people's like, folks to go or somebody to be able to take their kids, you know, probably around the age of 12 or 13 or older kids and just, you know, walk out of the movie and just say that was cute. All I was going for. We're not changing the world here. I'm not trying to make some sort of, like, huge, amazing message. I just want people to leave say that was cute, and then be like, You know what we haven't done in a while, let's go bowling. So then, then people are going bowling. And that's really just what we set out to do. And that's what I think we accomplished. And it's been a lot of fun, and it's only been, only been made a little bit more interesting by the fact that one of the most polarizing directors of a generation decided to make a multiple personality serial killer movie of the same name. That's it.

Dave Bullis 59:21
It's about where we are, yeah, it's is. Again, as we were talking about the in the pre interview, I actually, you know, just funny because about my friend who actually found split, it was like, Oh, there's another movie out called split. Did you hear about this? And I said, I said, Yeah. I said, actually talking to the director. He He looked at me, so I when I said, Yeah, I'm actually talking to the director tomorrow. He goes, Why? Tomorrow. He goes, Yeah, are you screwing with me? Yeah, yeah. It's like, what I'm because, like, because one of my friends was finally like, he goes, Dave, I'm just gonna ask you if you've ever heard of these guys. He's like, you seem to know everybody. And I said, well, thank you. I try. But

Jamie Buckner 59:56
Turns out, turns out, that's so funny. I had a co worker who, I guess it was back in like February or March, had went to go see the Shyamalan split, and as they were walking out, somebody was like, you know, I tried to find a stream of this online, but I got some stupid bowling movie, if you had it's also that's, that's been, that's been interesting, you know, like, it is what it is. But, you know, people who are going out to watch a horror movie that, I guess, on some sort of, like sites, again, things I'm not familiar with, but I think, like Torrance or street something, somewhere out in the world, in a very popular place. It seems that our movie has been basically it's all of the artwork, all of the synopsis, everything completely out there in the world for pretty early on. It said split, as if it were the Shyamalan split, but then you clicked on it and you got our movie. So we've gotten a ton of people that were not happy about that happening. So that's that's been, you know, it's been something, but, you know, in fairness, there have been, there have been, you know, here and there, there have been, there have been plenty enough people, you know, that have just been like, Hey, I found this totally wasn't the horror movie, but it was pretty good, great. Thanks guys, you know. But somewhere, somewhere along the line, on some sort of like back channel torrenty Put movies up for free place we those wires got crossed. Actually, iTunes at one point, big, you know, awesome apple. Listen, I'm all on the Apple train. I love them all. I have all their products. The hate at one point had, what was it? It was our movie. It was our movie. You it was where you went to, like, find hours. But then down at the bottom, all of the trailers were for the Shyamalan movie. So it was like even iTunes had some of their wires crossed, which is and again. And then apparently there's a third split movie that came out in 2016 that I, you know, that is just apparently, like a completely out there sort of mind screw of a movie that I also haven't, you know, that I that I haven't seen, but I know exists. So, hey, you know what? It's a very popular little five letter word. What can I say?

Dave Bullis 1:02:27
We should sit down together. You myself. M Night, Shayamalan and the and another guy from that third split. And we should, the four of us can compare all of them back and forth.

Jamie Buckner 1:02:39
Oh, I what I wouldn't give what I wouldn't give to just hear from anyone in the like Shyamalan camped, to just say, Hey guys, yes, we know there's a bowling movie. Isn't that funny? Like, just something like, how many people? How many people have taught how many people? And I'll just go to my deathbed, I'm sure. Wondering this, how many people have gone up to M Night Shyamalan have been like, Hey, do you know there's a bully movie called, oh, if it's happened once it's enough to make my lifetime, that's that's really, truly the case.

Dave Bullis 1:03:19
But you know, you know what? You know, what I should tweet. M Night, after this, after this interview, I should tweet all about it. Do it and see, I mean, let's be honest, there's a 99.9% chance he's not gonna respond to me, because he's gonna be like, wait a minute, isn't this that weird guy? And that's how, that's how most people usually say, remind I remind people. Isn't this that weird guy from that thing.

Jamie Buckner 1:03:43
But I'd say there's also a 99.9% chance he doesn't run his own Twitter. So there's also that,

Dave Bullis 1:03:48
Well, he actually does. Oh, does, yeah, it's all it's all him.

Jamie Buckner 1:03:52
Oh, wow. Well, that's cool. That's after that. That's like mad respect for him. Because, like, I'm there's so many people that, like, spend so much time making it seemed like it's them, but it's not actually that, you know what I'm saying. Oh, yeah, so that's actually really cool. If that's legit him, that's great.

Dave Bullis 1:04:06
Yeah, it's apparently the because, I mean, obviously, you know, just from other people, they've said, Yeah, that's actually him doing it all. And then, like Kevin Smith, he does all his own apparently. And because I had a friend of mine whose job, when he went out to LA, his first job was actually running celebrity Twitter accounts, and then, like, he would actually just to make sure it looks like them. So then he ended up doing stuff for like, a couple adult film stars, like, doing their social media. And he said he got so burned out, because you can imagine, like, it was just a constant bunch of like, weird, creepy guys going, like, hey, well, I can't, yeah,.

Jamie Buckner 1:04:47
Oh my I can't even imagine. I can't listen. I can't even imagine how tough it is to just be a woman on the internet in general. But just oh my goodness, oh yeah. I could imagine that would burn, that would that would cause a person to burn out pretty quickly.

Dave Bullis 1:05:00
Yeah, and he has a lot of other weird stories, which I which I won't go into right now, but, but, but what? Jamie, you know? I mean, we've been talking for about an hour and five minutes now, you know, I know we, you know, just talking about split you know, is there anything you know that we didn't get a chance to talk about, that you wanted to sort of talk about, or anything you wanted to say sort of put up here at the end of this whole conversation?

Jamie Buckner 1:05:22
Um, I mean, not necessarily, I would, you know, I think I got in all of my, all of my little plugs for the movie. I mean, that's, that's really, that's really the the important thing, as far as, like, kind of, you know, and I think just as a person that comes and does any sort of podcasts, like your own, like, I'm actually, I'm having a great time talking. But yeah, I mean, anybody who's listening, if you're interested in seeing if you like romantic comedies, if you like bowling, one or the other, especially both, please go see split, not the M Night, Shyamalan movie, the world's first romantic bowling comedy. We are the easiest place to find all the play, all the ways we're available is just to go to Derby City productions.com, like Louisville, Kentucky, the like the Kentucky Derby. So Derby City productions, plural.com, and that's, you know, our trailers there. And there's an Amazon button, if you want to watch it on Amazon, there's a, you know, Google Play button. How pick your poison. It's all right there. You can also follow us on Facebook and Twitter. We're on both of those. It's just facebook.com/split, the movie and twitter.com/split. The movie. Make sure you put the the in there, because if you just do Split Movie, you go right to Shyamalan, which is which is probably led to the most hilarious Twitter conversations, where people have sort of tagged split. The tagged us thinking they were tagging the Shyamalan movie, which I just can't help but have somebody from our side respond to every time it happens. And it's also, yeah, I mean, there have been some pretty hilarious there's specifically when it first, when this, the the other split came out, there was a guy who did a whole Facebook status update that somebody had sent me about how he, you know, he enjoys a little herbal refreshment from time to time. This guy, and he got a little bit, got a little bit greened out, little bit blazed out, sat down and thought he was watching a horror movie, and he just does this whole account of how he got point for point through our movie, thinking like, when is this guy gonna turn and start kidnapping girls? When is this when's he gonna murder somebody? Like he gets through pretty much the whole movie, and then eventually is like, wait a second, James McAvoy is not in the like, what's amazing to me about that is my name as the director is, I don't think you make it two, three minutes into the movie before you see that. And you know, like, it says, directed by not M Night Shyamalan in very clear print in the movie. Maybe he it's just keeps happening.

Dave Bullis 1:08:03
Maybe he thought that was another alter ego of this baby. And he goes, Oh, it's not, it's not Emma. It's Shyamalan directed this. It's his alter ego. Jamie Dockner,

Jamie Buckner 1:08:12
Yeah, yeah. That's my, yeah. That was my, that was my go to when this first started happening, too. I was like, What a twist, right? Guys, it was a bowling movie the whole time night. So he's got some sort of twist in store for you. No man, I think, I think, you know, we've covered, we've covered, we've covered quite a bit. I don't think that there's a I don't think, I mean, here's the thing, like with your podcast, the episodes I've listened to, it seems like a lot of your audience is going to be people wanting to get out there and sort of do it on their own, or are doing it on their own, or just, you know, I all, I, if I have maybe two cents worth of advice to offer, it's just, you know, there's all the reason in the world to get swayed away from doing it. But if you have what I was talking about earlier, and you have that, that inability to do anything else, and you just have to be telling stories, and you have to be doing this, then don't let anyone stop you from doing it. It took us years and years to get this movie made, and so much got in the way, and so much, you know, tried to whatever like, there's, there's always hurdles. Just get out there, start making something, and by all means, finish it, because there are so many. The most amazing stories to me are when people are like, oh yeah. And I got on this movie, and then we shot it, and then this happened, and then it got into post, and then it just kind of never went anywhere. And I'm like, I do not know how anyone could ever get into that position, like, just put it out on YouTube or something. Like, you just get out there, have your story told. There's too many ways for you to just get your get your story out into the world these days, and it's just, it's too everything is too readily available for you to have any excuse to not just be out there, telling your story. So get out there and do it if, if this is the right space to just like, throw that advice at anybody. But it seems like your your listenership would probably appreciate that.

Dave Bullis 1:10:20
Yeah, yeah. I completely, I think this is the best, best spot to put that in there, yeah. And thank you for saying that. And I know exactly where you're coming from, that people, you know, we get sort of stuck. I mean, I've been there honestly, Jamie, but that's a whole nother story for another time. But, Jamie Buckner, thank you so much for coming on, buddy, absolutely, man. Thank you very much. Great talking with you. Great talking to you, Jamie, and listen, whatever you could do next. You know, let me know. And you know, I want to bring you back on. We'll talk about whatever you have coming out next. And because I'd love to have you back.

Jamie Buckner 1:10:50
Oh, great, yeah, I'd love to come back on for sure, man.