BPS 183: How to Get Your Project on Netflix with RB Botto

Today on the show we have returning champion RB Botto.

For many, the holy grail of television has become Netflix. It’s a titan in the industry, and with over 200 million subscribers worldwide, no one can put out content quite like them. Just look at the recent hit show BRIDGERTON, which has already been seen by a massive 80 million households (!!) since its release. If you’re a writer or creator, getting your series onto Netflix’s platform can spell success in a big way. But first there’s the matter of getting your series in front of them and pitching it effectively.

It should be a comfort to know that you’re not the only one who wants your series on Netflix. Netflix wants that too! Netflix execs are constantly on the lookout for exciting new voices and new series to fill their slate. Yet it takes more than just a good series or a good pilot script to get on Netflix’s radar; you need to be able to communicate it well and pitch it in a way that will get their team excited. This certainly takes some work, but it’s absolutely achievable. If you’re interested in getting your show on Netflix, it’s time to learn directly from the source what it will take to make that happen.

In an effort to reach more writers and find more content, Netflix has joined forces with Stage 32 to present a FREE and invaluable workshop on what it is that they’re looking for in new shows and how you can best pitch your series to their executives. In Stage 32’s continued effort to help level the playing field for content creators worldwide, we felt it’s important that we help you get tools you need to be able to make sure that you can pitch effectively.

Kicking off the workshop will be Stage 32 CEO, Richard “RB” Botto (@rbwalksintoabar), and hosting this presentation will be Stage 32’s Managing Director Amanda Toney with Netflix’s Director of Creative Talent Investment and Development for International Originals Christopher Mack. Christopher was previously Senior Vice President of Scripted Content for Stage 13, overseeing all of the brand’s original scripted series and development slates across multiple genres, including Emmy nominated Netflix series’ SPECIAL and IT’S BRUNO. Before Stage 13, Chris headed the Warner Bros. Workshop, the writing and directing program for professionals looking to start and/or further their careers in television. Over a period of 10 years in this role, Chris curated a roster of close to 100 writers and 50 directors representing the breakthrough emerging voices working on high-profile television shows today. In addition to these responsibilities, Chris has covered hit shows such as TWO AND A HALF MEN and SMALLVILLE for the Current Programs department.

Prior to joining Warner Bros., Chris spent seven years writing on various one-hour dramas including ER, THE PRACTICE and THE NEW TWILIGHT ZONE. After graduating from Loyola Law School, Chris got his start in television at NBC Studios as an associate and he quickly rose to becoming an executive. During his time at the newly created NBC Studios, he oversaw a varied list of shows including: THE FRESH PRINCE OF BEL AIR and IN THE HOUSE, among others.

In this exclusive Stage 32 workshop, Christopher will delve into what exactly makes a television pitch work at Netflix.He’ll discuss the essentials you’ll need to catch Netflix’s eye and will zero in on how to write an effective pitch document.He’ll pose questions you be able to answer and communicate for your series and give you ideas on how best to communicate your show’s overview, world, tone, and characters. Christopher will then discuss how season summaries should be built and give you ideas on how to think about and present potential episodes. Finally, you will have the invaluable opportunity to ask Christopher your own questions. You will leave this presentation with the understanding of how to structure and present your series, not in theory, but directly from the source.

Enjoy my epic conversation with RB Botto.

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Alex Ferrari 0:00
I like to welcome back to the show, I can't get rid of him. He's it'll be share roaches, and dirty penny back on the show, RB Botto from state 32. My friend how are you?

RB Botto 0:24
I am doing well. Sir. How are you doing? Well, you know, it's a good place to start. How are you doing? Because the last time you know, regular listeners know that I've been on this show many many times. And I'm very thrilled to be here. I feel like you know, like Cato on the couch sometimes. But it's, you know, always great to be here. But the last time I was on the show, you were in a room that I could only describe as minimalist modern meets witness protection program, and you will going on and on about how all art is meaningless and that everybody is exposable and that and disposable.

Alex Ferrari 0:47
We're all gonna die. We're all gonna die. It doesn't matter.

RB Botto 1:07
And that yeah, we're all gonna die and it's going to be all meaningless anyway, so I'm hoping you know, my hope today is that you're in a better place. It seems like a brighter room. Seems like you've decorated a few things. So how are you doing? I think we should start with that.

Alex Ferrari 1:20
I am. I am doing I thank you for your concern, sir. I do appreciate it. I I am doing better. Because you know, it was it was a darker place when I spoke to you last, no doubt because we were in transition. So that dark witness relocation room. Minimalist relocation with a one chair in the back was the rental that I was in while we were looking for a home here in Austin where I just moved to so um, it was a tough year, let's just say was a tough year 2021 was a tough year. A lot of transition a lot of moving I don't know if you've moved recently, cross country with two children and a cat. Not not easy selling one house.

RB Botto 2:03
It is one of my 2022 goals.

Alex Ferrari 2:06
I'm sure it is. But anyway, it was very it was it was it was I wasn't, I was I was not in the best place, let's say but it wasn't in a bad place. It just wasn't in the best place was a rough time. But I'm doing much better. Now. As you can see, I have a you know, my set that I put together and we you know, we're settled in now and loving, loving life here in Austin man. It's, it's, it's great. And I'm happy I made the move to Austin. It's it is obviously where all the cool kids are moving to. So it's it's a nice place to be. And you know, and no state tax helps.

RB Botto 2:42
I know you're trying to get me to get down there and everything like that. And, you know, like I said, it's one of my 2022 goals. I have to have two kids and get a cat. That's the first part of the goal. So maybe we'll be shooting I mean, a few more years. But you know, maybe there's a time where I'll be a neighbor or something.

Alex Ferrari 2:57
There would be nothing better in in my life if I could see you have a child. Ohh My God, have you change a diaper?

RB Botto 3:08

Alex Ferrari 3:08
Oh my god,

RB Botto 3:10
I have nephews, I mean, don't say it like that.

Alex Ferrari 3:13
No, no. Don't be throw that niece. That's only one step above. Like, I've got a dog. It's the same thing. But um, you know, everybody's listening, you know, RB comes on the show, periodically about, you know, to talk about the business and talk about what's going on and, and he's definitely got his ear to the grindstone about what is happening right now in the business. And, you know, he reached out to like, Hey, I think I think we got some cool stuff to talk about. I'd love to come back on the show and kind of like give, you know, give, give the listeners a little bit of insight of what I'm hearing. Because our business is changing man like God every 15 minutes, it seems like what we talked about an episode 500 Besides the all artists meaningless, everything that's ever it's evergreen. But the business from that point on, which was only like probably four, four or five months ago, is changed dramatically. And it's changing so dramatically that it's hard for people like us to keep up with it. And we're like in we're in as they say in the shit. You know, we're in We're back. We're in the we're in the trenches every day seeing what's going on. And it's hard for us to keep up, let alone someone who's outside of the business trying to break in and it's kind of like you're aiming like, Okay, I'm going to aim for this, this little hole that I see. I'm like, Oh, the hole moved that way. It's like you're playing golf and every time you hit the damn golf ball, the pole moves and it's exactly does exactly what's happening as opposed to as Wayne Gretzky says, You have to think where the pucks going, not where it has been.

RB Botto 4:55
Yeah, well, you know, there's nothing I enjoy more with them when you wade into the waters sports metaphors just you know, it pumps me up it really

Alex Ferrari 5:07
I was I was a triple threat as a kid so I don't know what you're talking about I was a triple threat I almost I almost played baseball, almost play basketball almost play football. So that's

RB Botto 5:18
2022 goes to maybe you could actually go do it.

Alex Ferrari 5:21
Not with this body. Not now things things creek a little bit more than they use too

RB Botto 5:29
But yeah, I'm picking up on your vibe about everything. I mean, you you know, obviously you running everything that you run, not just the show, but your entire empire. You know, you're talking to people in the business all day long, and you're hearing what's going on? And you know, it's it's been, I think it's a fascinating time right now. And, you know, one of the reasons why I reached out to you is, you know, first of all, if people aren't familiar with me, you know, if they haven't met me before, heard me before, I am the CEO stage 32. Real quick, I'll give you the tagline that our world's largest platform for connecting and educating film, television and digital content creators and professionals. We act as a marketplace between content, producer and content, you know, the content creator and content maker. And we have the world's largest library of education anywhere with over 2000 hours of education for anything that you're doing craft to professionalize and the business. The big thing that we announced recently, was a partnership with Netflix, where Netflix is paying us to educate the world on how to produce content, create, develop produce content, for Netflix. And the reason why Netflix is doing this is you know, they have a 17 billion by order basically for 2022. And it's probably going to go higher, Disney plus is committing 33 billion, and that's probably going to go higher. And the question becomes, how can you create all this content at scale? First of all, I'd like to say to that anyone who's listening to this, I coined the phrase and 2020 2020 21, even during the pandemic, and I've extended it to 2022. And beyond, this is the great content gold rush right now, if you believe that you're not paying attention, Netflix certainly believes that Disney plus believes that Peacock, they all believe it. Right? HBO believes it. So Netflix is basically, you know, for Netflix to be able to produce $17 billion in original content for 2022. And they're expected to extend that by in 2023 and 2024. Year over year, how can they go and train the world? On how to do it? And how can they shorten their path to finding quality content. And that's why they apply it us to serve as that education arm and to partner with us to be that education on because if they had to do this on their own, they'd have to hire you know, hundreds of new people, train them, get them on planes to go around the world to find people that they can train to produce all this stuff, then you go through development, making sure the content is right. So basically, what they're doing is they're hiring us to act as their training arm to help find creative voices all over the world, producers all over the world, to create content for Netflix and their main goal in a lot of ways, you know, Netflix right now, keep in mind that they're a publicly traded company, and they have shareholders to, you know, to answer to, they have basically saturated the American market, the only way they're going to get another subscription out of the American market is to get some get one, you'll get people that have cut the cord, the new cord cutters, or to get people who had Netflix before cancelled and coming back again. So what they want to do is, and you're seeing it already is they they can add members all over the world, in foreign countries, right? And in foreign areas where they're not saturated. So what they want to do is create local language content that plays well in America. So you think about squid game, the pin, Narcos, sidebar, things like that. And what basically said, where do you find that content? How do you go to South America and find that content? How do you go to South Africa and find that content? How do you do that? And that's what they've kind of hired. That's what they've hired us to do. And by virtue of that, since this was announced in the trades, and the business trades over the last few weeks, we've just been getting hit up with every studio, every production company, every management firm, every agency coming to us saying we want in how do we get to your best content, you know, they wanted to first looks at it.

Alex Ferrari 9:29
So it's interesting because you know, it filmmakers and screenwriters listening, they're all like, well, you know, I'm, I can provide, I can provide content, I can provide value I can provide like, why can't I get in? And a lot of times, they don't understand that there's right now. There's so much need for content and there's so much money. There's no other time in the history of our industry. Has there been so much money thrown around, not even in the 90s and the early 2000s when everybody was making a lot of money There's so much money being thrown around right now. I don't know if it's a bubble, I don't know if it's gonna pop eventually, who who knows there's only so much of this, you could only spend $33 billion a year and not make $33 million a years for so many years before you eventually crash, so something might happen. But there's also we're running into the place of like, we're running out of people to create this content like, like skilled, labored people from from writers to grips to electric, like there's never been more of a need for support, and for positions in our business, not only in America, but definitely overseas and everywhere else around the world. But the problem is where a lot of you know, filmmakers listening right now they're like, Well, why don't they give me a shot? I'm like, because you haven't been vetted. And they're not gonna throw a billion to a million dollars on you just because you have an idea. That is a funny SNL skit that they did, where like, do you see that skit where they just walk? Guys just walking down? Like you, you what do you what I have the show, think about bread, good million dollars, go, you know, and they just start handing out shows left and right, because it seemed like that's what they were doing. But there needs to be some sort of way to vet people to come in. And that's where you guys come in. And that's where Netflix is trying to do is trying to build an infrastructure where they can educate people around the world to build this content, and then also vet creatives who come in, because if not, it's it's you can't you can't run a business like that.

RB Botto 11:31
Yeah, well, you're 1,000% Right. And this is exact, everything you said is spot on. And that's exactly why Netflix has come to us to train but they have but the conversations have gone beyond that to say how do we create that pipeline because it's not enough to train people. You got to get this content in you got to get it in fast, right? But you don't have the time to vet through and to sift through the shit that you know, inevitably in an invariant and variably production companies streamers managers agents get on their desk every day. So basically what they're coming to us and saying okay, you guys go to the marketplace anyway, you content that comes through you on the premium side gets vetted by executives in the business if it gets spit out the other side. With recommendations on it. We want to see that content if it falls into this genre at this budget, so they're able to come to us and that's why I was saying about the stage 32 writers room. By the way, this is just a giveaway for your for your for your listeners if you want a free month the state's 32 writers if you're a screenwriter, producer, filmmaker, whatever just write Jason merch is His email is Jay dot merch M IRC H at stage 30 two.com Tell him that you heard this on indie film hustle. And that will give you you know that I said free month for you guys, anyone who's listening. But what what we've been able to do in the writers room. And if you're not familiar with the writers room, it's basically a REIT, an Online Writing Community is 1000s of writers. We do education every week, we bring an executive from all over the world every week. But one of the biggest things we've been able to add since we announced the Netflix thing is open writing assignments. So what's happening is all these studios production companies are coming to us streamers are coming to us saying this is the content we need. We need female driven romantic Baba by half hour show half hour comedies, who do you have, and we're able to connect that content creator that's been vetted to that to that production company or studio, whatever. But with the ows, what they're coming is they're saying we need somebody to write this project. And then people that are in the writers room can submit their material to that production company into that studio. And that that has already been vetted through us. And they're able to be put up for these writing assignments. So we've been doing this for a couple of months. Right now, we've already had 20 writers that have moved on to the next level as far as within that particular company to write these projects. So that's exciting, because you know that during the 90s, and you know, maybe 80s 90s, open writing assignments were very common, then they kind of went away. Now they're coming back in a big way. Because again, how can you fill this content by this content spend? If you don't go out there and say, Look, you know, we have Emily in Paris, we need three more of these. Okay, where are the writers to do it? Right? Okay. So they come to us and they say, Okay, we're looking for it in the vein of Emily in Paris. We give them the scripts, they hire the writers. So again, if you want a free month, at that

Alex Ferrari 14:28
So you're basically tell me that Taylor Sheridan is not able to read everything, is what you're saying.

RB Botto 14:33
By the way, you want a great article on this. I don't know if you've seen it yet. Oh, yeah. Have you read it?

Alex Ferrari 14:40
No. Go ahead.

RB Botto 14:42
Let me just tell you this. There is a site called you should write this down because I know you'll love it. It's called puck.news. Okay. It's an article called The Triumph and the tragedy of Yellowstone and it speaks all about how this whole tale of Sheridan and thing went down. And I think writers and everybody, any creative that's listening to the show will be fascinated by the fact of the hoops that everybody had to jump through just to make this show happen, even with all the attachments. So here's what I would say to this audience, because I know the first thing that everybody is thinking right now, and there's no question and you're going to get 6000 emails, I'm going to get 6000 emails. So let's nip this in the bud right away, is I have a great project for Netflix, how do I get in there? How do I pitch them? How do I do this? Alright, so let's get this out of the way. First, the first webcast that we did in our partnership with Netflix was taught by Chris Mack Chris Mack is a 20 year development executive in the business. He was a writer, he started in writers rooms, he moved on to become an executive, he heads up, he's one of the main development executives at Netflix, he came in and taught a three hour workshop on what you need to do basically get to Netflix, okay? He said on that show on that workshop, quite clearly and upfront. Look, you can't call up Netflix and go, I got a great script, it's not going to happen. Doesn't work. That way, it doesn't work that way. We only have so many bodies, we can only listen to so many pitches a day. And oh, by the way, those pitches are being listened to those of Fincher and Spielberg. And those are the people you know, and the top agents of CAA and web and yada, yada, okay. But here's how you can do it. Get a manager or an agent that could walk in, attach an actor that has a first look, deal with Netflix, attach a director as a first deal, Netflix, go to producers who have deals with Netflix, attach a show or honor, that means something to Netflix, okay, these are all ways that you can control what you can control to get there. Now, let me put this in perspective, I don't want to, I don't want monopolize, I'm just saying one put this in perspective to put a button on this. That Chris Mack workshop has been viewed by 140,000 people. Now I want you to think about that. That means there are 140,000 people that have logged into state state two.com registered for that it's free. By the way, it's a free web, you could still watch it. If you go on to education stay stay to type in Chris Mack, when Netflix you can watch it. Or you can see all that if you type Netflix, and you can see all of them right there all 340,000 people now think about this, that's 140,000 people that we reached, there's a whole world out there you could x multiply that by people that we haven't reached yet that haven't seen this, but that means there's at least 140,000 people that you're in competition with, to get your show a movie on Netflix. So my question back to you is how do you get to Netflix? My question, the answer that question is a question to you. What are you prepared to do to get it to Netflix? How much are you willing to control because if you don't go out there and connect to you know, get a manager or an agent that has a deal that can get in and walk it in, or get a producer or get an actor or get a director that has a deal or a pipeline in to any of these streamers by the way, you're not going to walk it right in. So that's what you need to be looking for. So I know all of you just banged out emails, and we're seeing, you know, copying Alex and me and everything yet, click, delete that draft and go, go watch the workshop. It is master class. Chris did an amazing, amazing job.

Alex Ferrari 18:14
It is it is fascinating because God, there's so much there's so much need for content. And there's so many people wanting to jump in. But you're right, what are you willing to do to get there? And you know, I've been I've had the pleasure now of being another what episode Am I on 540 30 20 something. And I've talked to so many people in the business. And within the last year, I've been had the pleasure of talking to Oscar winners and Emmy winners and all the you know, this insane, insane people that I've had on the show and been humbled to have on the show. And one thing I've always I always find out, which is really interesting is it's not always about talent, though talent is important. It's not always about experience, but experience is important. What the main criteria of making it in our business is is resilience. That's it, that's the number one thing, because there's people and you know this for a fact there's people who shouldn't be writing in Hollywood today that shouldn't be directing in Hollywood today. But they were more resilient than anybody else and they were willing to take the hits and kept moving forward. As Mr. Rocky Balboa always said,

RB Botto 19:22
Say that was very that was really that was bullish. Yeah, that was yes. I couldn't agree with you more 1,000%. I will say there's a one a two that that is more important, or it was always important. But it literally is more important at this moment in time than any other is you have to understand how the business operates. Absolutely. I'll give you an example. We just talked about the idea of attaching one or attaching this whatever. People have heard me say it probably on your show that we are out with a pilot that I wrote, okay, we attached David Weddell, who is the showrunner for for mankind on Apple TV. He was number two on Battlestar Galactica. Then number two on the strain. He has been around for 30 years, he just be loved in the industry. Okay, we've pitched it, and we've had some success. But a lot of people, even with David on board have said, Okay, well, what else? Like what do you have? Do you have any actors interested? Do you have any, you know, that, again, it's sort of an we don't take that we don't. We're not, you know, beaten down by that or offended by that we're sitting there going, okay, the competition has gotten so great. And you have all these actors that have deals now. And these directors that have deals now, and these actors, and these directors have relationships with other actors and other directors and other showrunners. So they are coming in with even bigger and bigger packages, right? More more elite, right? So it's like, okay, how do we make ourselves better? So literally, last night, the brain trust of this show the producers, David, myself, a manager, friend of mine, who's helping push this thing around, we sat down and we discussed strategy of do we go directly to the dealmakers do we hire another producer? That means something to these particular pods, these people who have pods? Do we go to actors who have pods at the at the you know, and this was, so this was a business conversation amongst the creatives, but we understand what we need to do, and how the business works, that we're not just saying, like, well, let's just bomb everybody, or let's just hit up, like, who makes this type of show, at this price, who has a production deal, who's an actor that we think we could attach, that means something, and that becomes a business strategy. So totally agree with you on resilience, but you really, really need to understand how the business operates. And that's why if you're blind emailing people going I got a show from Netflix, you're, I'm saying you're basically proving to people that you don't understand how the business suffers. If you're spending 17 hours on screenwriting, Twitter arguing about whether names should be capitalized in a screenplay, and executives go who book and see that that's what you're arguing about, they're going to go one year difficult to you're going to be difficult to work with three, you don't understand how the business operates. So you got to be aware of your brand. And you got to be aware of how everything works.

Alex Ferrari 22:08
But so it's it's so funny now because and I want people listening to understand this. It's gone from the 90s. From you know, if you watch the movie, the player, which is, which is a classic, Robert Altman film about the business, that first 10 minutes shot in them film, it went from what those guys would those screenwriters were doing, which is pitches, and people and in studios buying pitches to then produce and attach and package and get a movie made to the point where we are today where you need to have a full package ready to go. And that gives you a fighting chance, it doesn't guarantee it gives you a fighting chance to get through the door. Because like you just said in your example, you've got this very well known a beloved show runner. And that's not enough. That's like, that's great. You've got a good foundation, but we need dressing. We need actors, we need directors, we know who else because there's so much competition now for these places that if you don't package something together, you don't get involved in this kind of pod like you were talking about. The chances of you getting it. I mean, when Spielberg and Fincher are having problems, getting stuff done, what chances do you think the newcomer has? So that's the world we live in? Whether you like to hear it or not. It's the it's unfortunately, the where we're at.

RB Botto 23:31
Yeah, but I would say at the same time, a lot of and it's a good, it's actually a good kind of convergence of the conversation. Like, you know, I said that, they asked us what else, but sometimes it's not what else we also get, this isn't a fit for what we do, of course, or we know we're where we usually don't get that because we target people that are doing this kind of thing. But we'll get some clients as we shifting gears, or sometimes we'll get we love the concept, but it's a little every tickets gonna be a little expensive. That's all fine and good, too. But again, how do you react off of that? And what do you do about it? And sometimes, you know, the finches in the Spielberg's aren't getting a deal, simply because it's too expensive, expensive. It doesn't make sense. It's not mainstream enough, or whatever. And then sometimes you get first time show first time writers. And it happens all the time that you get deals, but they get the deals because they bought some something more than the script, right? So I think that's something that we can impress upon the audience, too, is when it comes to TV. Sometimes the script is not enough. But also this is another mistake I see TV writers make all the time. And this is one of the things that we teach in the writers room all the time is you see writers come in with a pilot, and they don't have a pitch deck. And basically anyone can write a pilot that can knock your socks off. But every executive is going to want to know not only how to season one end, how does Season Three end, how does the show end? What happens with these characters? Where are the arcs? and you need to be able to hand them a pitch deck and say, Here you go. In fact, the trend today is and this has shifted dramatically over the last few years, a lot of times, they only want to see the pilot, they want to see the pitch deck, because they want to understand the world. They want to understand the entire thing. And if they liked the world, and they see the value in it, then they might say, Okay, let me read the pilot.

Alex Ferrari 25:20
But isn't it isn't it nowadays, like before. Again, it's just it's a shift in mentality. Because again, in the 90s and early 2000s, you know, it was all about based on the pilot, and how good they weren't thinking about season two or season three, because there was a 24 episode, pick up and it was network, and it was a whole thing. But in today's world, they're thinking about just buying out two or three seasons. And like, oh, yeah, like, if you give us three seasons, we'll probably you know, we'll do the first season, see how it's done. But we're prepared to rock on the next two or three, instantly, and we don't need it next year. We need it now. My friend, I had a friend of mine who works Cobra Kai. He, when I was talking to him, he's like, oh, yeah, Cobra Kai is just coming out. It's like, yeah, we already shot. We're editing Season Five already. Because Netflix bought this like no, go right into next season. They did not want to wait, they're like, You know what, just in case COVID. And that's the other thing COVID might happen. There's a window, let's shoot in this window before God knows what else happens and shuts everything down again. So they were just preparing for it. And I was like, amazed at that. Like, they already knew that coke Cobra was gonna be a big hit for season four was going to be a big hit. And by the way, anyone who's not watching Cobra Kai, what do you do with your life? You need to watch Cobra Kai. And, like, I don't even I could do a whole episode on Cobra Kai, I'm such a fanatic about go and Yellowstone, both those both those that could do a completely separate song. But it's the truth that that is the that's where the world is going. And that's where these streaming platforms are going. And yeah, you know, you're talking about someone like Netflix, which is really creating a lot of IP. They are they they're buying a little bit of IP, but they're really creating new IP, or leveraging.

RB Botto 27:11
I mean, they are buying but they're buying in small pockets. Now their goal, Look, you know, at the end of the day, this is why everybody is going where they're going. There's only so many libraries that are left to buy. You got Lionsgate out there you got Viacom that, are they going to be a buyer or they're going to be acquired, you know that every day is

Alex Ferrari 27:26
Sony, Sony. Well, not now.

RB Botto 27:29
But certainly, you know, if you woke up one morning, and you found that there was some sort of deal with Sony, or some sort of m&a with Sony, you wouldn't be strong. And it won't be strong with anything right now Apple buys a studio, you just you wouldn't be surprised by anything at this moment. But the point of the matter remains, there's only so much content left to buy. So they have to go out and create it. And that's where the creative you know, the putting this committing the $17 billion spent and Disney 33 they need to do it. So the Cobra Kai example is really interesting, because Netflix has, again, if you watch Chris's workshop, this is in there, but Netflix, their way of viewing TV is tell us three seasons, okay? And what they are hopeful for is that maybe we can add a fourth and a fifth. But at a minimum, we have three. And now if you're thinking about the fact that again, it's been 17,000,000,030 3 billion the next year, and I think they're talking about maybe 50,000,000,020 24. What they can do now is they say, Okay, if we have show a if you just produce show a and we know this is going to be at least three seasons. In our forecast, we could plug in season two and 2020 for season three and 2025. So good. That's one line done. That's what they were spending there was spending there. So that's why they want to know three. And if they can get beyond three fantastic that's like, you know, playing with house money in their opinion. There are other platforms that think much longer and you know, like a platform like Showtime. They're like, free man, if we could, you know, 10 years out of this, we'll move 10 years out and you saw it with like the affair and Homeland and you're seeing right now what billions, though goes 789 10 years, HBO is the same way. Although HBO has shifted a little bit into let's do a limited series. But let's do multiple series, multiple seasons of the limited series, right? And what why did they do that?

Alex Ferrari 29:10
A true detective and yeah!

RB Botto 29:12
We'll look into like, like white lotus, whatever the hell? Where's why low. But the point of matter is to bring in a whole new cast this season two. So why is why would they do that? Well, they don't have to give raises to everybody from season one. So again, if you don't understand you got to understand the business. And you got to ask yourself like these are questions you really honestly, you need to ask yourself, is my show a series? Is my show a limited series? Is Is there enough for it to be three seasons? Or is there you know, is it there's a finite end? It's based on something real, like the show we're pitching is based on a true story. And we've been asked in pitches, they're like, Well, you know, I see you see three seasons, but is there any way you could do this in six episodes? And I'm like, what the story takes place over six years, so be really difficult to do. I'm not saying we can but I'm saying that and then they're like, yeah, yeah, yeah, but they think that way. You got to be able to have an answer to that. But to be able to have an answer to that you have to understand how the business operates.

Alex Ferrari 30:06
Right and like, I'm sure everyone's trying to figure out how to make a sequel to Queens Gambit. Like everybody's trying to figure out how can we leverage Queens Gambit, even though that was a one off? Obviously, it's a one off like, you know, and if you try to do something, you know, contrived just to squeeze out another seat like they did with Tiger King, by the way like I I couldn't watch without your game was an anomaly. But then, like, I watched like the first 1015 minutes of Tiger King second season. I'm like, why am I watching this? This is garbage. This is garbage.

RB Botto 30:34
About like the fifth episode of the first one.

Alex Ferrari 30:36
No, no, no, I was it was a pandemic. Don't judge me. We were we were locked up.

RB Botto 30:43
We want to do this Cobra Kai episode in the Yellowstone episode, I will just come down there and sit next to you in full garb.

Alex Ferrari 30:49
Yes. Because I swear to God. But But So look, let's actually look at Cobra Kai for a second because Cobra Kai, I saw it on YouTube. When it first arrived. It was I was an original Cobra Kai fan when it came out on YouTube bread or whatever the hell they call the premium. And then it kind of died on YouTube. It was very popular on YouTube, but it died because nobody had there was no eyeballs on it. So then they're like when YouTube read shut down. And they had this show. Netflix like oh, we'll take the Karate Kid show. On paper. This doesn't sound good. On paper. This is like this is not a good idea on paper. And but they bought it. It exploded. And then I mean, it became the number one show ever on on on Netflix. And then it's just grown and grown and grown. And I talked to the guys I know on on on COBRA. Kai and I go, how much? How much longer can we go with this? Like how? How many more seasons can you guys squeeze out because they're good. They're not they're not waiting. Season Four was excellent and ended amazingly setting up Season Five like in a way that you're like, like but there's only so many more characters they can go back to like there's only and I don't know if you know this or not, but the rules are. Any movie that has Mr. Miyagi in it is part of the lore. So that doesn't include the Will Smith reboot with that doesn't include anything as Mr. Miyagi in it is where they can pull characters from.

RB Botto 32:18
Interesting. So that sort of rights must be traded off when they did the Will Smith.

Alex Ferrari 32:21
No, it's not the rights now Will Smith's a producer on the show, that's all there. But creatively, creatively, they don't pull from anything else other than if Mr. Miyagi was in it. So that's why we went we exhausted a karate kid one exhausted Karate Kid to now they've pulled in all the care almost all the characters from Karate Kid three. And now the only other one is the next, The Next Karate Kid, which was with Hilary Swank. And, and that would be effing amazing if they brought it back. But it's interesting that they grabbed this IP and then took off with it. And it was really interesting and something like glow, before they cancelled it because of COVID. Right? That was a, that was a niche IP. Only guys love your you and my age, would even remember Glow grown up,

RB Botto 33:09
She got two different types of IP. Right? Right. So this is another thing that a lot of these these platforms are doing. So you know, when I say what I said earlier about the fact that there's only so many libraries you can pull from library by that is true, there's a finite amount of content that can be bought. Right. So as far as existing libraries that trail back, so what the what a lot of these and clearly Disney is the king of this, right? What they're doing is they're taking the IP that they own, or the IP that they get the hands on and playing into the the soldier aspect, right? So that's one thing is something like glow. What's really fascinating about that show is, you know, they pitch that around quite a bit. And you know, it's an interesting concept. But again, it's like, this is something that Chris talks about to on the workshop. Why didn't why why why that show. It's not that people knew that world, it's that the characters are these female characters. And the female empowerment aspect is what sold the show. So again, if you understand what we're talking about when you and I say, you know, understanding the industry and paying attention to what's happening. We're not talking in code here. We're talking. It's not always like, you know, like this, the show we're pitching Weddell is, you know, it's a crime to true story. 1950s, late 1950s, Crime corruption, you know, on the surface, you could sit there and say, it sounds like a billion other shows, you know, it's like Boardwalk Empire West, let's say whatever. Right? But so when we go in to do our pitch, we talk about what the cat what the show is about, but what are the characters about what are the themes that we're going to hit in this show? What are we trying to say? And how does it relate to the world today? Politics, global warming, like all this shit is involved and what happened in this environment back then it wasn't global warming that there are But the the the ignorance to what was happening with the environment leads to destruction of what happened in the space, right? When you bring that in, you could see when you're doing these zoom meetings and I've done some of them in person to when you start bringing in those themes and everything like that they go that's interesting to them, right? That's the that's the like, that's what I'm saying, like, you know, when I listened to people pitch, or when people approached me, you know, we were in Austin, for example, we were hanging out and, you know, invariably I'll get, you know, over the course of a weekend on screenwriters that will walk up to me and start pitching me that stuff or giving me the logline to tell me about the story. And it's fascinating to me, how many of them talk about the world, and not about the characters. And at the end of the day, the only reason why we watched the best piece of advice I ever got, not today know this, but it was good to hear from a Yoda type figure in the business. My original manager, David Greenblatt, like, you know, David founded endeavor with Ari Emanuel. He still manages shame black, he's managed to sleep the weapon, the guy is a genius. The guy is known the Business Insider now, you know, story inside out. And he basically said to me, he goes, your world, he goes, Star Wars. He goes, you could take in Star Wars, this character, he goes and put him in a bar in Boston, like cheers. He goes and played on the same themes. He goes, you know, without the mysticism without all the bullshit, he goes, and you would still have these amazing rich characters, right? And he goes, at the end of the day, he goes, you're taking relatable character traits and relatable things that people will experience in life that they could hold a mirror to with the with those characters, nigga hold the mirror to themselves. And you could put them anywhere. But you need to be able to explain what are the themes? What are these characters going to experience, and he said it and this is film or TV, by the way, it's film or TV. You know, at the end of the day, we see a lot of films that are very, very similar in theme or in world even like crime dramas and all this stuff. What sets them apart the characters, what makes us go back to watch them again, the characters we fall in love with the characters. Oh, we call the characters right? So what we have, you know, severe writer out there in any level, even a filmmaker or producer or financier pitching the project, the characters or everything like

Alex Ferrari 37:17
Right! Like you don't go back and watch Seinfeld and friends, because they they're in New York, New York is just happens to be the backdrop you don't watch Indiana Jones.

RB Botto 37:25
They're in certain in certain in certain,

Alex Ferrari 37:27
Absolutely. No, it's a character in it, but you could take friends and put them in Boston

RB Botto 37:33
100% a character Right, right. You know, like, cheers that Boston ish ship because talk about the Red Sox. And you know that that culture is embedded in that show. But you're a hunter, so right. That could have been a bar in Austin. It could have been a bar.

Alex Ferrari 37:48
Right! And then if you look at something like I'm going to go back to Yellowstone. I mean, yeah, Yellowstone is in Montana. But you could put that in Texas, you could put that any place where there's horses in the cowboys and a ranch and it would work perfectly fine.

RB Botto 38:05
We got Taylor Sheridan an article. I don't think he would he'd be having none of it.

Alex Ferrari 38:09
No, obviously Taylor has

RB Botto 38:10
Had a shot at the Taylor Sharidan and I wanted to Taylor Sharidan an article. He, they called him and he said, you know, they're interested in talking to you. And he's like, I'm not coming in for a meeting. So they sent the plane to Park City if I'm on a plane to come for 45 minutes. 45 minute meeting at Paramount. It's fucking classic.

Alex Ferrari 38:30
It's, it's no, it's it's amazing, because I love you know, a lot of people don't know about Yellowstone. Yellowstone is not very well known. It's known within the business. Well, now it's grown. It's grown. We're in season four.

RB Botto 38:44
Yeah, no, it took four years.

Alex Ferrari 38:46
It's and people aren't listening, and people are watching now. But I would say that if you just take Yellowstone as it exists right now and throw it on Netflix, it would explode in a way that we couldn't even understand. Because it's just because my Paramount doesn't have the Paramount plus definitely doesn't have the audience and Paramount network where it started. Didn't have the audience. It was this quiet little show that had Kevin Costner in it. That's all they knew is like a cowboy show with Kevin Costner wasn't a big deal. And I just started I think I think I came in on season two is when I came in on it. I was like, Oh, I hear it's really good. And you hear rumblings like, oh, it's really well written and you watch it. You're just like Jesus Christ. And then the cat. Its character man, a cat. Taylor writes such amazing dialogue, such amazing characters, the arcs of the season. It's remarkable. And then you start seeing him what he did with Mayor Kingstown. And now 1883. And then he's got the four sixes coming out afterwards, and now he's building and I've never seen this before. Ever in maybe Shonda was shaundalyn Shonda Rhimes. But in the corner of the episodes, it's like the Taylor it's Taylor Sheridan universe, or Taylor Sheridan. And it's right there.

RB Botto 40:03
Read this article, dude.

Alex Ferrari 40:04
It's like literally Oh, I like so what Taylor was able to do. Because look, Taylor is a very talented screenwriter. And he was I mean, he did Sicario. He did hell and high water. He's known as. And he was also an actor. He was also an son of anarchy and a couple other things. But what he was able to do, and I got to read this article, because I really want to read it because I was like, how he was able to leverage this. And I'm assuming it didn't happen overnight. But they figured out that like, oh, Yellowstone's a thing, maybe we should let this guy do some other stuff. And he is running with it. He's grabbing it and running with it. Now he's literally building out a universe in off of the Yellowstone brand, which is just fascinating to watch, just from a business standpoint and a creative standpoint, because he's got carte blanche, he does whatever the hell he wants. They just random attack. It's pretty fascinating to watch right now. But he's successful. He's really good.

RB Botto 40:58
Yeah, yeah. And I again, we'll maybe we'll put it in the show notes or whatever, we'll put a link to the article because it I think it's an edge. I think it's a you know, a masterclass in how these things happen and how they could fail. Because you know, this is a Viacom Paramount plus production, Viacom only owns piece that if you'd like there's, there's so many moving parts to how this happened. And then how they got into detail showered in business after it became a hit. And it's fascinating. But there's a lesson in here as well. There are a lot of writers out there. And you know, like, I don't want to wait for a network show. I don't want to I don't want my film on Netflix, because it's going to get buried and nobody's going to see it. And you know, I'm not saying that same valid, I'm not saying you won't get picked up from the algorithm, but you want to be working and you want to be able to see your produce screenwriter on any level any way that you can. Because the other thing that's happening right now, again, with this content by and what Paramount plus parent, what they realized is, again, if we're going to spend more money, let's go with the entity we know. So let's instead of going to find more shit, let's go to Taylor and say, Hey, what else you think? And oh, okay, yeah, we'll do that. Okay. Yeah, we'll do that. Okay. Yeah, we'll do that. And guess what the phone up there, Ross that this is happening over and over and over again, there is a commitment by this is why Netflix and some of these, these platforms are giving deals, to even, you know, even to actors to say, if you're attending a production company, we want to see what you're bringing in. Okay. It's the reason why Jamie Foxx right now is producing like 15 movies that he's not going to be in because he knows that this if he does it, right. They're going to be like What else you got, what else you got, what else you got? We want more, we're gonna buy more. So it's not only the great content Gold Rush, because there's so much content that there's so much money that needs to be spent, and so much content being produced. But it's a content gold rush because if you play your cards right and you embrace the long game, and you get a ahead for example, that if you're not a you know, if you've never run a show, if you've never been on a show before been in the writers room before that you're not going to be the showrunner somebody buys your show, but you'll be happy to be in the writers room and work your way up. And you already got a year of people because they're buying your shit, man, you can fast track right now. It's not a five year process to get the show on air. It could be season two, okay? Because they they're running out of show runners, they're running out of people to do right, right. So it's just I always it fascinates me when people shoot themselves in the foot and everybody's sort of like, oh, you know, I don't want to take the low money from Netflix. I want the residuals I want this I want that I'm not going to put my film on there and have nobody see it. I want the ads going theatrical doesn't even exist anymore. You want to be a working writer and if your first paycheck is not what you know, it's not going to allow you to go buy you know, a house on the beach. So big. Okay, weren't getting the fucking game. Like you know what I mean? Stop listening to everybody on freakin broadbased social media by the way. I mean, somebody sent me a Facebook thread screenwriting Facebook thread the other day, I looked at this thing, and I was like, this is carnage. Like the the shit that was being disseminated by people who had never done anything in this business have never sold anything that were preaching their gospel and other people were eating it up. Like it was like God came down, you know, Moses came down from the mountain. It's, it's debilitating, and it's going to set you back years, do whatever you can to get your ass in the game. And oh, by the way, curate your social media feeds and put yourself on platforms like the reason why I started stage two is that's all we talk about is film. Okay. And we have professionals in there talking about all of it. We have 3000 executives there in the platform, talking about the business. Nobody's ripping anybody down. Nobody's telling anybody, they're an asshole. What they're doing is to disseminating the proper information on how to navigate this business. And it's up to you. Totally up to you to treat your career like I always say, and Alex says it all the time as well. You're the CEO of your career. If you are not If you're running a business, okay, if you did a startup tomorrow, would you just go out and listen to all these people who have never done it all these people that are aspiring to do it in the same way you're doing it? Or would you surround yourself with people who have done it? Well, that's what a lot of people do on broad based social media stream writings with a film, Twitter, some of these Facebook groups that are just poison. And then they end up saying and so's back us because they're listening to advice that doesn't translate to reality. And

Alex Ferrari 45:28
I mean, look, if you want to, if you want to look at reality right now, I mean, I just read in the trades that read notice that the biggest Netflix film of all time, which you know, I watched, it's okay, it's fine. It's fine.

RB Botto 45:41
It's when you tie me to a chair in front, my eyes open.

Alex Ferrari 45:44
It was it was fine. It was okay. I love the rock. And I love Ryan Reynolds. And like, you got the basically the two most charismatic human beings on the planet one movie, you're like, I watch it, it was fine. They've now committed to read notice to and read notice three, back to back, that doesn't that never had happened before. Really, other than the Back to the Future two and three back in the 90s. Like it doesn't, it doesn't happen in the studio system in the normal world. But now, and those aren't like little movies, those are huge movies. And not based on IP. That's an original IP that was created on Netflix, and they just know that out that the data is so compelling that like, well, we slot it for 2022. We slot it now for 2023. We got to take those off, they got to take those off. And then then like you start seeing all of a sudden, all you see is Sandy Bullock coming out with movies on Netflix. And you're like, Okay, Sandra Bullock movie done. Check to another boom, check. Okay, when smart is Marty coming out with another movie soon? Okay, let's Okay, he's over an apple. Now next time, he'll come over here. And they'll just start. They're just going after these these people constantly. And just because they need to fill they need to fill man, every week. Every week, they've got a tentpole movie coming out every week, almost, it's insane.

RB Botto 47:01
Wow. And then they released what 42 movies in q4 of 2022 2021 42. Movies, you know, extrapolate that out that's 168 movies over the course of a year, that's literally one every other day. They're committing to more they're committing to I forget the number in 2022, the sheer number of movies was pretty much close to one a day. And it's going to extend it to 2023 and 24. It's going to go up. So the idea that now of course, are all those songs going to be quality? No, are all those films gonna be high budgets? No fucking white, right? There's always for every red notice, you're gonna have, you know, 1020, you know, five to 10,000,002 to 5 million, whatever, okay, that they're gonna get me with people that you've never heard of before, whatever. Okay? If you are one of those screenwriters that wrote one of those movies, and you're just thinking like, Oh, my God, that sounds so soul sucking, in comparison to maybe the way the industry ran, you know, 20 years ago? Yeah, I can understand why because you wanted the article and you wanted, you know, 2000 screens and all that crap and everything I get it. But if you're not fitting with the times, and you're not understanding that, that gets you in the game, and that that allows you to go to the next thing into the next thing. And the next thing, is it a natural thing that's going to happen is what else do you got? What else do you want to work on next? Then you're missing, you're missing the idea of how you build a career in this business in 2022. And it's the same thing for directors, you know, if if, you know they need to hire people to do fucking 42 movies in a quarter, you got to have directors, you know, 200 movies a year 300 movies a year. And that's just one platform for its sake. I mean, like, you know, you talk about Apple doing this span and Disney doing this, but Oh, so you got to be able to put yourself in the game and

Alex Ferrari 48:37
The scary, the scary, the scary, unknown quantity. The beast in the room that no one's looking at is Apple, because Apple come out Apple could outspend everybody tenfold in their starting and they're starting to they're slow and methodical. But they're starting to build up and they're starting to build up and start and you can you can start seeing it because now I I subscribed to them because I saw I'd love I'd love the morning show. I watched the morning show and I got in for title so because everybody was talking about that last I was like I gotta watch that last one. That's great. That sounds fantastic. And then Finch with Tom Hanks and but it but it's but they're the giant that that at any moment could come in and really do and look Disney Disney was it quiet until now they're outspending Netflix, which no one really saw coming at the beginning.

RB Botto 49:29
Them to they saw in the span, they want to go back. It's almost like the touchstone days. So they want to go into adult again, right? They want to go into adult oriented material, not have everything be you know, friendly, all the IP stuff that they have. So that's another opportunity for eyes but you're 100% right, I say this. This is gonna sound like an insult, but I'll say it as a comment. I always call apple and it's the biggest compliment I can pay as a business person as somebody in the tech world. Apple is the ultimate SNAKE IN THE GRASS company. They're always lying and wait and you You never know like, well everybody's looking up over here at the beautiful trees, they're moving along and, and it's with everything whether it's friggin Evi zone. I mean like, it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter moving DVDs now automated driving all this stuff. They but absolutely there is no way that Apple is not going to make a significant move. I mean, they already are in the content space. But I mean, like I am waiting for that day where they, you know, leap up and bite you in the calf. And all of a sudden everybody's

Alex Ferrari 50:30
Don't buy don't buy Sony.

RB Botto 50:32
They might

Alex Ferrari 50:33
Don't buy so they'll buy Sony though Dell, you know, I don't know if they'll by Lionsgate I don't think that's the content doesn't match, but because they're not just a library, they're very specific with the stuff they're doing. They're not

RB Botto 50:45
Interesting, right? Because do they go like you look at what HBO does? Right? Right? Well, they're extending their buys, but they're still staying in within their brand, which is the prestige brand, right? So HBO is very interesting right now, because they are extending, but they're not losing sight of who they are apple, if you you know, if you had to put everything into columns right now and you're forced to put them into columns, you would sit there and say, Apple almost seems like they're gunning for HBO, they'll go on to the prestigious type stuff with the big names, right. But I don't believe for a second with their reach. And with everything that they got going on, they still may go high level, but I think that they're gonna go high, like, you know, high level on steroids, I think they're gonna go, you know, for the big, maybe the big content bar, maybe maybe the big library buy, that's certainly in play. But you know, that historically, they don't really do that kind of thing. They're not usually an acquire, not too often, you know, like, even the beach thing, when they do not happen. Like that was like one of the most fun because they didn't do that kind of thing, you know, not to billions of dollars, they just create their own right. But in this particular case, you know, this is an arms race right now, right? This is an arms race for dollars. You know, Disney, which so interesting about Disney, to me, was Neff Disney was first sort of like, Yeah, we're gonna do this spend, you know, and we're gonna stick with our IP, and we're gonna do all this stuff, and whatever. And then as soon as Netflix said, we're going $17 billion. And we're going around the world that we have enough, not that we have enough us content, we have enough of a pipeline to get more. And you know, we know where to go to get more, we need to go around the world and get more of that stuff. All of a sudden, you know, chapek was on CNBC going, oh, yeah, by the way, we're going into adult content, and we're going all over the world for local language, and we're spending $34 billion. And it was like, wait, what? That was a massive, should you just want the first kid if like, what, what the hell just happen? Right? But everybody else has an answer. I'm sure that made everybody at Apple go, you know, get up on their on the heels a little bit and say, Wait, what, okay, you know, how do we compete with that, at the end of the day, you know, people are only going to have so many subscriptions, they're only going to be able to hold so many. So, you know, you're going to have consolidation in the space, not everybody's going to survive. You're definitely gonna have more m&a. You know, you do have those few libraries that are hanging out there. I think Viacom is so much a wildcard like, oh, there are there acquirer. What are they, you know, those with the Paramount deal make, you know, and Yellowstone, and that is that shifted thing. It's so interesting. But you can see whether themselves, I mean, they were actively pursuing a sale up until about September, and then they pulled themselves off the market, or at least they fronted that they announced that, and they fronted that. And you wonder why, you know, a lot of it could be like, you think you can get me but now you can't, and now you got to raise your price. And now you got to sweeten the deal, or quite a bit could be they, you know, it's almost like a team that hits the trade deadline. And that kind of, you know, right on the cusp of the playoffs, so like, you know, are they buyer's or seller's? And I think that's kind of the place that they're at right now.

Alex Ferrari 53:49
Well, we you and I, last year, I think when we were I think when it was last year, or the COVID, I think was the COVID episode when when COVID hit you and I talked about what was going on in the business. I mean, we call it out MGM or like MGM is going to be bought like that, that brand is going to be bought. So there's no question in my mind that Viacom will be purchased at one point. I don't know if they have, you know, Sony, look, Sony has been in trouble for a long time. And now because of spider man, and Marvel's connection with Spider Man and what they were able to do. That's an anomaly. And yeah, they'll be able to make a few more Spider Man movies, and they'll make a couple Bond movies, but generally speaking, you know, they're not, they're not Disney. They don't have the IP that Disney has, like they don't nobody has that Disney has Warner Brothers is the next closest one that has anything like that. But uh, but I think you're I think you're absolutely right. I think Sony will go somewhere. I've been saying paramount for a long time to and I don't think, I don't know, maybe this new shift the Paramount plus. We'll see how that plays out. I'm not sure how many people are signing up for Paramount plus, because again,

RB Botto 54:59
It's helped me This is the most stream show, I think, you know, which one is Yellowstone,

Alex Ferrari 55:03
Yellowstone. Without Taylor Sheridan, the entire company goes down.

RB Botto 55:09
Thinking, right, because the Viacom, it's a complicated thing, because there would have to be some unraveling, not for the audience at all this, but I'm saying that would have to be some unraveling, actually, it shouldn't bother the audience, because every single thing that we're talking about creates opportunity, every single thing here every day. But they would have to unravel some of this. Like, again, when you read this Yellowstone article that I was telling you about, you'll see that like, you know, part of the problem was that like Viacom really wasn't benefiting off of this as much as they wanted to because of what they had done with Paramount plus, so they've become sort of this complex thing that's going on right now. Which is why it fascinates me that Viacom kind of pulled themselves back, you know, Viacom, CBS was walking about, by the way, she talked about the whole CBS let you know, that whole library as well. You know, they're pulling themselves back. Right. So does this does a hit and getting into bed with a guy like Taylor showered in? Well, you know, you're going to have you know, Mayor Kingston is going to be ahead if it isn't already, and you know, the Yellowstone prequels gonna blow up, it does change, right? Does that change the entire? Or does that just raise the price or raise the attractiveness or whatever. But that's See, the thing is, is that all of this shit that we're talking about? Everybody positioning themselves in a way to either make themselves more attractive to be bought? Or, you know, escalating the war, so to speak? Benefits every single creator, every single professional, whether your producer or financier whatever, listening to this show, right? What What are regularly?

Alex Ferrari 56:38
What was the MGM library sold for? Do you remember? No, I don't I forget. It's like, it's like, we were talking about 5 billion, 8 billion American. But it's somewhere in that world. Right. So why would Netflix buy that? Because Amazon bottom?

RB Botto 56:55
Yes. Well, I'm sure that 8.45 Yeah, yeah. I mean, I'm sure they, I'm sure they, I'm sure they bid on it. I'm just sure that, you know, maybe they just thought you know, again, that their their money is better spent on original content. That's what they want to be. You don't I mean, parmesan. See, it's really interesting, cuz we haven't even touched on them, which is so fascinating that Amazon is I was on the phone, literally, with an executive yesterday, whose production company has a first look deal with Amazon and has done a bunch of phones with Amazon, I'm not going to name because I want people spamming them an email. But they've done some of the biggest ones, including one that might be nominated this year. So they were talking about, like, you know, Amazon has a very complex system right now. They're figuring out their way, like, you know, like, what do they really want do they want because they've done it both ways. For them, they've gotten like, they've gotten involved, this production company has gotten involved with existing projects that were on the way that needed some finishing, and they came in late, and then they brought it to Amazon, and it's sold. And they've also been involved with ground up, you know, from, from the script on, right. And the like, you know, she said to me, this executive, she's a top Senior VP SVP at this company said, there, every time you talk to them, they're kind of like, we're gonna go this direction we want we want to buy more stuff. And then it's like, we want to create more stuff, we want to buy more stuff, we want to develop more stuff. So I feel like they're kind of in this weird nebulous space, too. But I don't see how they don't go out and increase their spend as well on original content, I think they have to. So I think that ultimately, this is where they will go, will they buy one of these existing libraries that are out there? They certainly can. Okay, but does it increase the value and make more people want to buy prime to get more shipping? And, you know, they enter that flywheel that they talk about all the time? I don't know. I don't know. Okay, buying content as well and developing it. So no, yeah.

Alex Ferrari 58:55
And they're the only they're the only company that has a completely different business model than all the streamers. Because it's a it's an add on, it's a plus they did the same thing with the music, they you know, they just kind of like, Oh, here's a little bit of you get this for free, you get this for free. If you just sign up for 100, whatever, I have 120 bucks under 40 bucks a year for prime. And so for them, it's just like a little, little add on a value for prime, which makes all the sense in the world. But my main question to you is, can someone I mean, they are Amazon's a tech company, right? They're a tech company.

RB Botto 59:28
Company. Absolutely.

Alex Ferrari 59:30
Yeah, they're dead company. Right? Can someone please work on the frickin app? It looks horrible, though. Is a horrible it's the worst app of all the streamers out there it is ugly. It is nasty. It just it is so unappealing. And it has been for so long, please RB you know people can you call somebody and say Please, for God's sakes.

RB Botto 59:55
I will do that. I know that she of by MDB and the CEO of IMDb Pro, but I don't think they can do anything about

Alex Ferrari 1:00:01
It looks sharp in 1996 man looks like MySpace designed dude. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry.

RB Botto 1:00:07
The question I have is just that crypto LogMeIn haven't spoken, so we're gonna

Alex Ferrari 1:00:13
No, it's just it always fascinates me, I'm like, it's I barely go there, because it's so ugly, and it's so hard to kind of navigate and there's so much crap on there. So it's hard to navigate that thing. And if I was actually paying for it, like, if I was actually paying for it as a separate, I would have never in a million years bought it ever.

RB Botto 1:00:28
It's horrible interface. And the thing that's the guy, you know, is that a tell? That's something that, you know, I've talked about with people too, is that a tell that they're not really committed to it? I don't believe that that's the case. I think we wake up today, and it's really glossy and shiny, then you know, that the probably next thing you're gonna see is, you know, something in variety that they, you know, spending a gazillion dollars or, you know, in ink or something or Forbes or something that spending a billion dollars, and they listen to and then listen to this podcast, obviously, his podcast No, like, of course, you know, Alex and RBO, right? Of course, even right. Yeah, I listen, you know, at the end of the day, for everyone listening, it's this is just such a keep saying it's the great content, gold rush. It's such a an opportunity right now, but it's why it behooves you to start treating your life like a business. You know, your career, like I said, your, your, your entire being where you're the CEO of everything you're doing. And again, not wasting your time. I mean, right now is not a time to be, you know, everybody needs entertainment, everybody needs to have downtime, and I get that. But you really right now need to not be wasting your time on some of these threads and some of this stuff and put yourself in a position where again, you're surrounding yourself with the right people, where you can get to the right people where you're investing in yourself and in bed at a time. Because the competition is just because the doors are open wider than they've ever been doesn't mean that there aren't more people trying to jam through those doors. And the question becomes, can you scale the wall? You know what I mean? Can you scale the wall as opposed to standing behind 60 billion people trying to get through the doors, and they're always scaled the wall and and really, honestly begins with your relationships and your contacts and getting to people that can that want to be in the business with you. And that can help you get to the people that you want to get to the people that you can't get to yourself, which is really what this business is all about.

Alex Ferrari 1:02:28
I want to ask you, you know that there's something that Disney and Netflix and HBO are doing at a high level that a Sony and Paramount aren't yet and I'm fascinated why they aren't. I think the king of this is Disney, where they take one IP and they spin off shows. So obviously Mandalorian was their test subject and now there's literally I think this year they're releasing five shows from I think it's I just literally saw this as a book a Boba a Mandalorian they are Saska forgot I can't even say her name, you know, Rosario Dawson character. And then two other Obi Wan Obi one show and the the Rogue One prequel, all spin offs of the Star Wars world. And then obviously, you know, Cobra Kai, and all that kind of stuff. But you look at Paramount that has IP, not maybe as glossy as, as Disney. But let's let's just take it and we're just gonna spit ball here. Let's take an IP like The Godfather, or the IP of Top Gun that they own. Yeah, why wouldn't they spin off a show about fighter pilots and the drama that goes along with that, that you know that that the Top Gun school after they released the top, the Tom Cruise thing? And Tom Cruise would have to be a part of it, obviously, unless you produce it or something like that? And maybe he does. If you're lucky, you know, maybe you can come and have him come in Cameo once or twice. And then to the end of that. Why couldn't they do a spin off of the godfather? Take one of those characters and build a world around the Godfather universe? Why hasn't that happened? Because those like because it's all nostalgia, right? So the generation right now that's alive, that that's paying for all of these subscriptions are not the 18 year olds. They're it's our generations Generation X Generation Y. Those are the guys guys and gals who are buying into Cobra Kai. And yeah, other generations are jumping on board because it's good written stuff. But is that nostalgia that the tapping into select? Would I watch a Top Gun Show if it's well written has good characters? I would would I rather watch The Godfather universe unfold in the mafia that time and maybe fast forward and do like what they're doing with Taylor Sheridan, but why do you think they haven't done things like that? I'm sure and Sony has many other IP like that as well.

RB Botto 1:04:55
Alex, this is your lucky day. I have The answer to this question, okay, will I have the answer to this question. So, and it's a great question actually, I, we, I had the fortune of pitching this project to television project that I'm talking about, to Paramount plus, and to about one of the lead development executives there. They really, really liked the project. Okay. And what they said to me was, look, here's the deal. At this moment, we are setting our plans for 2022 and 2023. Now, again, that includes Are we a buyer? Are we, fender? Or are we going to get acquired or something else is going to happen? Or are we going to merge? Or what's going to happen? Right? So the answer to your question is, so the way it was explained to me is they I don't know if you're aware of this, but the big clay that Paramount is making this year outside of yellows, which is not really a play on this year, right? I mean, they all the spin offs, and all that is a, a limited series on the making of The Godfather. So the making of the car. So they using their IP of the Godfather, and they're basically telling the story about Robert Evans, and you know, the whole deal.

Alex Ferrari 1:06:17
Oh, well, narrative, not documentary narrative, narrative, oh perfect!

RB Botto 1:06:22
Miles Teller, I think is playing. Maybe playing Evans I forget who's but but milestone was one of the big guys in it. And but it's, you know, it's cast up it stunted up. And by all accounts, you know, at least by their accounts, but they were telling me it's amazing. And it looks I mean, it looks,

Alex Ferrari 1:06:38
I'm watching it, I'm watching it,

RB Botto 1:06:40
Definitely watching the night one. So the point of matter is, is that they're using their IP for that, what that IP is, right now, what this show is, is a line in the water to see how the public response and if the public response, so like this show that we're pitching kind of fits the sensibilities of this audience, because it's crime, corruption, all this stuff and everything. So that's why he said, love this show. Love this pitch, love this package. Got to give me a couple of months, right? So the answer to your question is, is that they're not going in for the big spin yet? Because they kind of want to see what they got? And why are they going to commit a ridiculous amount of money and go it alone? Or go it stay the course and do original content? Or are they going to drive up the price of what they have with Yellowstone to spin off Mayor Kingstown and now this Godfather thing, and maybe either become part of a bigger package or something bigger? Or what you know, I mean, what's that going to be? So that's the that's the big answer. Right now there's they're still feeling their way. They're kind of in the infancy of creating new content, even though they've had yellow sofa for years. It's not like they created iOS on and then 30 of the shows 50 of the shows. And you have a lot of which really interesting, we just got interest from it. But I honestly have to be honest, I didn't really know I knew this was a thing. But I didn't know. It was an expanding thing. Spectrum originals. So spectrum, the cable network, right? Spectrum has produced six shows a year for the last few years. No one's seen it. Yeah, basically, what spectrum? So think about it, what what is spectrum doing now spectrum knows that people are cutting the cord. And they saw how do they keep them, they're going to try to create their own content. It's gonna work. But they came to us, for they heard about the show that we're pitching. And they said, We want to read it, we want the Bible. So we just sent it over to him a few days ago. But this is another example of the fact that there this there are going to be more and more and more of these companies, but any streamers, and these platforms, everything that are going to keep the need to move into original content. And not all are going to survive and some get snatched up if they do it right. And, you know, benefits everybody.

Alex Ferrari 1:08:57
So how I mean, in all honesty, though, I mean, no offense. Okay, let's say DirecTV starts building out their own content. I'm not sure if they are they're not. But they can't compete. They can't compete on IP. They can't compete. Like you're not going to woo the best of the best.

RB Botto 1:09:14
Well go look at it.

Alex Ferrari 1:09:16
Unless it's cash

RB Botto 1:09:17
After this going IMDb Pro and look up the spectrum originals. And look at the cash of these shows. All A list.

Alex Ferrari 1:09:24
There's only one there's only one show. I know that have that it was the Jessica Alba show. That, that that one more than I knew. Right! That was the one show that one cop show was and it was a spin off of bad boys. It was a good Gabriela I forgot her last name. Yeah, yeah, get her and Jessica and it was the spin off of her character from bad boys. And there was two seasons of that and then it went on Netflix and that's the only time I even realize it was originally a spectrum because I was looking Oh, when's the next season coming out and like it's not

RB Botto 1:09:41
Can and Meryl Streep, I mean, they get names. I mean, it's just a And apparently I'm sure they're paying up for it, they got more money than that too right? But the question, I guess, at the end of the day, like I said, I think a lot of these platforms like that and even power mountain to go back to your question, I think a lot of them is still feeling like, you know, ultimately, the end of the day, you really have two choices, right? You either become a nice kind of, you know, you fit into some sort of nice, where people want to come for this content, you know, you're going to get a limited audience, but that's good enough, okay, maybe it's three lanes, there's that, okay, which is, you know, like stars and stuff like that, which, of course, is owned by, you know, it's all this stuff that goes on, and who's owned by WHO, and who's a division of what and everything like that, but you're either in that lane, your own lane, you're in the prestigious business, like HBO and possibly Apple, or you're in the mass, you know, so, you know, a spectrum is never going to be any of those. Right? Well, it's gonna be Netflix, it's gonna be they're gonna find a niche of some sort if they can find it. Like, for example, one of the reasons why they were interested in the show is they're not afraid of period and not afraid of expensive. So they're basically saying, okay, maybe we can do six big budget prestigious shows that maybe get us, you know, some sort of me awareness that we got profile. And I don't know,

Alex Ferrari 1:11:20
It's interesting, because I was talking to a showrunner of a very, very, very, one of the biggest shows of all time, comedy shows all time. And I was talking to them about how they got their start. And they got their start on HBO. And on that show, I was asking, like, how the hell did you guys were so young, when you guys were brought on to show run them, you were just starting out. And they're like, What HBO didn't have, they would just starting out, they it was the Wild Wild West, they didn't care. So they basically gave the keys to the to the inmates to run the asylum. And that's where that happened at Netflix at a certain point, though, the asylum the the inmate was David Fincher, so not a bad inmate to start rolling. Exactly the other perspective, but you know, the game with House of Cards was like that was that because people forget House of Cards was an on godly deal for its time. And it was such a huge risk that everybody in Hollywood was just like, What is going on? This is insane. I think that the only way the smaller ones are going to go is that they they pull out, they basically give the keys to the to the inmates on certain part on certain things. And if they can find that niche, and I think you're right, so like could spectrum become if the niche is big enough? I'm just throwing this out there, you know, could they become could have a could a tailor shared and open up a Yellowstone in spectrum with the same cast the same everything and could spectrum have built a whole network based off of that and then Okay, so we're gonna go Americana we are thing as Americana cowboys, you know, down that because that's a huge country music. That's a huge huge swath of of the US. Does that travel though? I don't know. So that's so these are all the things but that's the only thing I think that's gonna give these guys a shot, is they gotta let the the aside, Disney didn't have to do that. Disney owned all the IP. So they didn't give the key, though. They gave the keys a little bit the junk favourite, they fall for it with the Mandalorian. They're like, okay, you can kind of did you ever see that meme on Facebook is genius, where you see this giant train locomotive. And then you see this little, this little model train, and there's a string pulling the big one, you see conductors there and you're like, the Star Wars universe, the Mandalorian. You know,

RB Botto 1:13:52
I mean, I think this is where we're going though, right? I mean, Netflix isn't the show on the rise, but I think you got to people that you know, these these streamers have figured it out. That again, you know, to be able to fulfill this, this amount of content, we need to have some short things. You need to have people that can produce it mass, right. It's sort of why CBS got into the the guy who created Two and a Half Men and

Alex Ferrari 1:14:12
Oh yeah, Tricolore

RB Botto 1:14:15
Yeah, I mean, they did try they got into the business of that, right. If you could produce five or six shows, we only have another 10 slots to fill through primetime in the next year. Right. So why not go with proven thing? Why not make the show runner a star? You know, that people actually know the audience knows that a shaundalyn or on the live show? shaundalyn right. movie goers know this to Fincher movie. This is a Sorkin movie, Amazon, whatever. I think that that's where we're going. I mean, I think that you're right. I think this is why Paramount made the move they made with Sheridan is they basically said okay, if we are going to make this move really into original content go heavy, which it seems like that's where they Luening like, again, you're at the trade deadline and we buyer's or seller's seems like they're leaning to Buying. If they're leaning towards buying, why not go with a proven entity, see if we could build those up that audience see if we could build these subs up. And then let's go out and we'll test the waters with rip, like you said with the Godfather thing. And if that works, then it's the next thing. It's the next thing. It's the next thing, right? Like one of the things that they talked about this executive talked about to me was if the Godfather one of the things are talking about is because they own Chinatown, right so they were like you can you can make a modern day Chinatown or the book based on China great book called The the last goodbye of the great goodbye. I've read it's fantastic. A look it up. It's great. It's about China, when I within the last year that the rights that have book around by Ben Affleck like David talked Affleck about, you know, maybe that's the Chinatown thing that they do a paramount because you know, so there is going to be again, every big star right now knows, they see the writing on the wall, the day of the movie star as it relates to film stars, is not coming back in a meaningful way in any sort of meaningful way. You'll always have, you know, Orion metals, rock and Gilda doe in a read notice. But that's also not in theaters that's on, you know, just sitting on your couch watching it. They know that so all of them are very, very happy to go do TV right now they look at TV as the new film. This also gives creators out there an opportunity to be able to attach talent to your products, projects. And that's why it's important that you cultivate these relationships. Because these actors know that the idea of being able to film Three to be in three films a year doesn't really exist in the way it used to. But you can be in the latest you could be in too limited series and make a film in a year for sure. And, you know, you look at Nicole Kidman, you know the Ricado she's on big little lie she's on she did the other the other one that she did the other TV one that she

Alex Ferrari 1:16:55
The one with Hugh Grant Yeah.

RB Botto 1:16:57
Yeah. I mean, this was she's I mean, you know, she's working constantly. But you know, 10 years ago, if you told her come to a limited series, she'd be like, Are you kidding me? I got you know, 15 films lined up over the next six years. You know, so that, that's why it's, it's an exciting time to and that's why there's this paradigm shift. And and again, I know I keep harping on this. This is why you need to be listening to the right voices, and most importantly, be educating yourself every day on what's happening in the business.

Alex Ferrari 1:17:22
What do you think? I'd love to hear what you think about universal NBC Universal, you know, they don't have a streaming service yet. Or do they? I don't even know about it. They don't have a streaming service yet. They have. It's so funny right now, RB is going to his computer to check if universal has announced a streaming service yet.

RB Botto 1:17:40
Yeah, peacock. Yeah, of course.

Alex Ferrari 1:17:41
Well, peacock again peacock is

RB Botto 1:17:45
This is another this is another thing, right? Like his peacock. That is amazing. But as I was typing it, I might pick up but I mean, but it's

Alex Ferrari 1:17:52
Exactly. But look, you took your second

RB Botto 1:17:55
That's the thing, right? I'm in the trenches with this every day, which they tell you to literally every day on the phone executives everyday, you know, hear come up. Very rarely

Alex Ferrari 1:18:04
Never hear pick up, come up.

RB Botto 1:18:06
What do I hear come up all the time. Of course, it's the usual suspects, Netflix, Amazon, Apple, Disney. It's, you know, it is paramount now because everybody's getting curious, right? It's all of those over and over and over again. And then it's sort of like who the production companies that have deals. That's what I listen to all day long, where I talk about all day long. Who are the actors that have deals? Who are the directors that have deals, whether they have deals? What are the pods? And if people don't know what a pod is? Basically, the every manager agent in the business, gets these pods where they're able to see what act or what production company where do they have a deal with? Where do they you know, like, Where does Brad Pitt's company how to deal with the TV? Right? It's HBO you know, as HBO is it Showtime is whatever. And you get to see where these people have deals. And then basically, if you have some knowledge, and you're really planning things like for us again, period show, it's going to be expensive. We sit there and go okay, first thing we think about is who makes this type of show. Okay, HBO would make it Showtime we make it scars and probably make it okay, let's go see who has deals with them. And oh, let's go to them first. Because if we went to HBO first HBO could fall in love with it but HBO might say yeah, but who you have your show runner but like who packaging more packaging more and bring it back to us? Give us one you know, give us an idea that you like

Alex Ferrari 1:19:25
Right! Right!

RB Botto 1:19:25
Right. So but that also but again every you put the little fish on the line to catch the big fish right if HBO came back to us and said you know, you know the actors we like to work with go to their agents and whatever we could sit there and go okay for our main guy, Bobby Cannavale is always on HBO shows. If they know if we go to court Bobby Cannavale is agent and say to him Listen, we spoke to HBO and HBO so cast act as HBO likes they're gonna read but if we just went right to that act, we went right to directors agents and said, you know, they might read because We have Weddell attached, that might be enough, but it might not be, you know what I mean? But again, this is how you need to be able to position yourself and how you need to be able to see the business. Everything in this business is a puzzle piece, man. Everything is a puzzle piece, everything it's a chessboard, it really is. And you got to see three, four or five moves ahead. But you can't see three, four or five moves ahead. If you're caught in the mentality of I have a great project.

Alex Ferrari 1:20:23
It doesn't matter. It's everyone's got a great look, everyone's got a great first of all, it starts with the idea. So everybody on the planet has an idea. Okay, everyone's got an idea, then okay, then I've got a script. I got a great script. Okay, that's step next step. Okay. Now have a great project. When I say project, that means there's more than one person attached to it. So now you have a project.

RB Botto 1:20:44
Maybe there's money attached to it, maybe something, something, some sort of other value beyond the script, like I would say, if I'm using the chessboard metaphor, I would say that the script, you literally just set up your board. Okay, your pieces are all in place. All right. What's your next move? Right, what's your next move? Can I get money? Can I get a showrunner let's just say if it's TV money, show runner, attachment production company, producer. If it's film, you know, can I get a director? You know, which is gold and when it comes to film, you know, films a different thing TV, it's more of a show or honor? Just people are curious about this? You know, if you asked me like, what's the first thing I should go after? If I'm packaging something for TV, I would say show Rob Phil runner, and maybe a name producer and or maybe a name producer because maybe you don't have the context of the showrunner but that producer might okay,

Alex Ferrari 1:21:37
But a cast cast as well. Obvious always cast.

RB Botto 1:21:40
If you get a great producer on board, they may they may go after the cast, right? You know that. But again, you're bringing the piece that can bring more pieces. With film, I would say you know, it's either money or a well I'll say three things money, a name producer that can get to money or can get to talent, and Endor a director.

Alex Ferrari 1:22:01
So do you happen to know that the longest how the longest running Netflix show in history, which is what do you know that what the show is?

RB Botto 1:22:10
You got me I don't know.

Alex Ferrari 1:22:11
Grayson, Frankie

RB Botto 1:22:13
I would never have guessed that.

Alex Ferrari 1:22:14
Great. Exactly. No one ever have guessed that. And I and I found out the story of how Grace and Frankie came to be. And just like Martha Kaufman happened to find out that, Oh, I heard that Lily Tomlin and James Fonda. Were looking to do television. This is seven years, eight years ago. And she called the PR agents like, Hey, I heard that Jane Fonda and Lily Tomlin are looking to do television. What what's going on? 15 they call up? And apparently it was that each of them individually, were thinking about doing television. And then the agent calls back and like, yeah, they were thinking individually, but now they want to do it together. And go really why? Because Because you called. And it was the power of the showrunner. The showrunner attracted the odd that the cast and honestly written one of the best sitcoms of recent in my opinion. One of the bestest comes in recent years.

RB Botto 1:23:07
I hope everybody's listening is taking this, you know, that's listening is taking it constructively. I have an agent friend that bought a show to showtime. This is a well known agent. And this is a you know, a person that's sold. You know, I mean, he's he's one of the top and packaged, it checks all the boxes, he has diverse hires in there, it's got some great characters, checks all the boxes for Showtime, what they are looking for which you need to know as well, like, what are they looking for? And they still basically said that they will like he called them in the morning, but he thought it was a slam dunk. He's like, when can we have when can they pitch? And he came back and they were like, we don't think we're interested in they were like, how can you not be interested? He said, You know what, let we'll get back to you. And they got back to him in the afternoon. They email them and basically said, you can send us the deck. But we don't want to hit a pitch yet. And this was with a major package. So the point of the matter is, is that wow, he adjusted on the fly every single place he's bought it to they'll like oh my god, yeah, like what listen to this pitch, like, Oh, my God, but it just goes to show you that, you know, you got it. You got to have multiple lines in the water. You have to keep perspective, you have to realize that there's only for like companies like Netflix where they're spending this kind of money. Yes, the opportunity is great. They do need to they need to fill a quota. But places like Showtime and HBO. Certainly they want to bring in more content, but they're doing it at a lower level. And they only have so many spots to fill. And they already are in the business of so many people that are bringing them stuff and have first book deals with a million other people that you have to be able to say to yourself, Okay, I think I think it's a great show for HBO, that you're positioning yourself in a way to get there. But then you prepare yourself with five, six other places to bring it you know, and you don't put all your eggs in one basket because you know they may have their quota filled for 2022 they may have the quota filled for 22 Through them, I only have like four or five spots open or eight spots open when it comes to like narrative shows, let's say, okay, so you got to you got to keep perspective with everything you got to keep you got a, like I said, stay on top of every single announcement that's being made and deadline and other places, who's doing what, who's moving where, who's looking for whatever. And you got to put yourself in a position to win. You know what I mean?

Alex Ferrari 1:25:23
So to close off the episode, sir, what chance and what should better question what should a screenwriter do a young screenwriter or someone who's just starting out, wants to get their stuff seen once they get into the business, best piece of advice for writers, and best piece of advice for a filmmaker director.

RB Botto 1:25:44
Clearly, if you're just starting out as a screenwriter or a filmmaker, you need to take action you need to do you need to learn the craft, you need to, you know, keep writing and obviously create stuff and get proper feedback on it. You need to go to you know, like I say, invest in yourself. Okay. One of the reasons why I mean, we've talked about this in the past, but the one of the reasons why the only way I would do development services on stage 32 was if there was full transparency, and you will getting reviewed by executives working in the business, and you get to do that. So my first suggestion would be, get your script, right, Jason, like I keep saying J dot merch, M IRC H at stage 30 two.com, let them know what you're working on. Let them know the log line, the genre, the the budget, and he can point you in the right direction. So that's the first thing. The second thing is for every creative that lives that's listening to this thing, community is more important than it's ever been. Relationships are more important than it's ever been. Trust me when I tell you when, when with everything that we've talked about today about the streamers and everything like that, they want to move fast. And the only way they can move fast is to work with known entities, right? They can't keep saying like, let me take a shot, let's develop this thing, it's gonna take two years to develop it. So you need to be connecting with people that are like minded, and that can help you and that can elevate you. And I'm sorry, but I think on broad based social, it's a reason I started stage 32 Because I wanted a platform that's just people like us talking about this stuff, and not about the salvage argument for 24 hours about slug lines, okay? You need to stop wasting your time with that shit and put yourself in a position to win and invest in yourself. Okay? And then the third thing I would say is man, you have to know the business. I know we keep repeating ourselves, but you have to know Chinnery of the business, alright. And you know, put yourself in a position where you could speak knowledgeably about what's going on. And that where and where, you know, your knowledge is your brand, man, you have to have a brand people. And the most important part of your branding can be that you know what the hell, you're talking about your professional. And that's what people when you're in a room, that's what they want to know, when we're pitching the show. They don't know me, I'm not known as a TV writer. I've sold a bunch of feature scripts, but never done TV. So when I'm in that room, I have to prove myself. And when they asked me questions about like, how do you see this fitting? Or how do you what do you think the budget is? Who do you think the actors are? I gotta have answers. If I just sit down go, Well, I haven't really thought about that. But here's my story. They're gonna be like, well, we don't want to work with you know, we need you to help us, everybody, you know, they need the showrunners and their people and their writers to know what the hell they're doing because they can't look over everybody. You know, I mean, they got to give you the money and let you go, go go do it. And you know, they got to have trust, right? So your brand is so wildly important right now. So put yourself in a position to win. I said at the beginning of the show. The writers room is free to everybody that comes on that everybody that listens to this show because Alex is my boy right Jason a che dot merch at age 30 two.com. Get in there. There's open writing assignments, everything like that. But most importantly, be active, be visible, be visible and active in the right places. value your time, value your money that you invest in yourself. Don't go with Fly By Night services and people that make bullshit promises demand transparency, and put yourself in a position to win and that's it. We could put all these links I could give you these links right

Alex Ferrari 1:29:10
Yeah, I'll put them in the show notes. Just send me stuff.

RB Botto 1:29:13
And yeah, man, if I could throw out I know we're gonna fly so I'm gonna switch out my my social handles as well,

Alex Ferrari 1:29:20
Which is arguably one of the best social handles on Twitter. And I,

RB Botto 1:29:25
I share a ton of free the reason I'm giving out my social animals not same reasons that Alex does what he does, we're not throwing it out because I want 60 billion new followers. To me follower account doesn't mean shit. It's about the quality. But Alex and I put out a ton of free information all the time. He does the show for free, obviously. And if you go on my Instagram and my Twitter you'll see that I'm putting out free content daily. And it's just RB my initials RB walks into a bar RB walks into a bar and also on stage 32. When you sign up and it is free to sign up. It's a free class. Warm, you will get my message on your wall that is automated. That's the only thing in my life that is automated, you respond to that you will get a response from me, every single social media post every single answer you see on social media, everything is me, just like Alex does, because we stand in front of everything that we say and integrity rules. And that's one of the reasons why I love this gentleman gentleman in front of you, and why I'm gonna, why I'm gonna, you know, to stop, stand him up. And

Alex Ferrari 1:30:27
I don't appreciate, I don't appreciate your tone, or your or your, you forget

RB Botto 1:30:32
I just want to say, that's the thing surround yourself. I'm, I'm hyping both of us up saying that we were men of integrity, I think we are. But my entire mantra of this business. I know Alex is the same way as I surround myself with people of integrity. And I surround myself with people that know more than I know, and help elevate me and want to take me with them. And that's been the key to my success this entire time in this business. And I it's the reason why we're partners with Netflix now. 10 years ago, five years ago, when we would talk to Netflix, they were like, Yeah, sure, guys. Yeah, yeah. And now they're coming to us paying us and we're working with them. And we're partners with them. That comes from proving yourself over and over again. Oh, businesses.

Alex Ferrari 1:31:15
Yeah. And and look, yeah, everyone listening to the show can see how the show has grown over the years. And it's because I've been here and just every day showing up

RB Botto 1:31:23
Stone overnight, you didn't get any of these people overnight, you work your ass off, to build this audience and build the show. And you did it. Like I said, with style and integrity. And anybody that you go out to can listen to one of your shows and go, I get it like, wow, this guy is really giving back like this guy does this from you could tell why he does it, and how he cares. And of course, why wouldn't an Oliver Stone want to do the show then? Right? Why wouldn't anybody in this business not want to have an audience with your audience? And I think that that's, you know, it's Yeah, but it's the truth, right? So that's what I'm saying to your audience right now. Be good to yourself, Okay, you're always going to be your own biggest champion. And you always have to find integrity in yourself. And you always have to inspire yourself, you should be your biggest inspiration, quite frankly. Okay.

Alex Ferrari 1:32:18
And just to put a button on this, man, you've been doing this 11 years, I've been doing it six and a half years. And, you know, that is a testament to resilience. But it's also a lesson for everyone learning and listening that this ain't gonna happen overnight. No, no, and neither you or I have made it but we've gotten to a certain level in our in what we do, that it's taken us a long time to get here, you're one you're not getting a call from Netflix, you know, you know, it takes time to get to these places in whatever you're trying to do. And if you think you have a one or two year plan, you're sadly mistaken, you have to have a one to two decade plan.

RB Botto 1:32:57
And that's what real goals, right this is. The other thing I would say to this audience is, you know, I see everybody going onto social media saying like, these are my 2022 goals, that's fine. I think you should have goals. I think, you know, some people have vision boards, I don't, that's fine. If you have one, it's all good. I don't care what your method is, but you need to be fair to yourself. And if your goal is, you know, by the end of this year, I want to have XY and Z. You got to recognize the fact that you get to X, Y and Z you need to have micro goals every day. You need when the day like I just had this conversation I did a sorry, awake a webcast the other day and they said, you know the guy that was hosting said You know, you're everywhere like you're always you know, you see here I see that how do you do it? Like how do you wake up every day? And you know, feel that fire? And the reality is it's routine. I wake up every day and my first hour is pretty much the same almost every single day. Because I know if I win that hour, I have a great chance to win the day

Alex Ferrari 1:34:01
And that's just it and that's just eating raw meat right you just eat little raw meat bourbon and smoke a cigar.

RB Botto 1:34:09
That's pretty much the entire plan.

Alex Ferrari 1:34:14
That's that's the voice that's how the voice has gotten to where it is. It's just raw meat bourbon cigar first thing in the morning breakfast.

RB Botto 1:34:20
Oh, definitely the bourbon contributed by

Alex Ferrari 1:34:25
Guys, RB man I appreciate you coming on the show. As always my friend you're always welcome back anytime. You you. You hold a record. I don't think anyone's gonna break your record of the most appearances on the show. I think were 13 14 15 I don't even I lost track. I have to go back and count them all. But but it's a pleasure as always your wealth of information. A gentleman and a scholar sir. So I appreciate your time my friend.

RB Botto 1:34:51
Well, I appreciate you having me on as always, you know I love you to death and appreciate everything that you do for the community of course and Yeah, man, I'm looking forward to 16 We'll get both I'm also looking forward to my gold watch 15 So I expect that in the mail and

Alex Ferrari 1:35:06
The jacket, the jacket will be coming soon his jacket,

RB Botto 1:35:10
Welcome jacket 20 I'll even get made.

Alex Ferrari 1:35:14
I'll get a smoking jacket and then I'll get a bid for the raw meat. So the blood doesn't get on the smoking jacket. So

RB Botto 1:35:21
Make sure now I feel like I have to come with a cigar and bourbon.

Alex Ferrari 1:35:24
Well, I don't know why you haven't you've yet to do that.

RB Botto 1:35:27
Yeah, I've well I used to book but actually when I used to do shows to do that was Bourbon and

Alex Ferrari 1:35:31
There was always there was oh, no, did you actually had bourbon straight up? Like you weren't trying to hide it? Like Yeah, no. depends on the time of day. This is early for you. So I understand. Six o'clock in the morning. I'm drinking. It's fantastic.

RB Botto 1:35:45
Well, listen. It's five o'clock somewhere. It's just it's just, I'm awake.

Alex Ferrari 1:35:52
It's a and I do I do hope to see you my friend at South by hopefully if it goes off. We'll hopefully have you here. It will be my first South by Southwest I've never been so it's going to be exciting. I expect you to be here to show me around. Tell me where to go where not to go. And and Sundance unfortunately. Not so much this year.

RB Botto 1:36:12
That full range into my scheduling. Holy shit.

Alex Ferrari 1:36:15
Well, maybe one day we'll come back to normal man I miss I miss Park City, but I think it's gonna it'll never be what it was. It will never be what it was. It'll never be what it was when we shot the movie. It'll Yeah, it'll never be that again. I think we're gonna be wearing masks for quite some time.

RB Botto 1:36:31
I mean well, we'll see what happens with South by if I can make it down there. If they have it. You know, I'd love to see we could probably do something.

Alex Ferrari 1:36:38
My friend a pleasure as always my friend. Thanks again.

RB Botto 1:36:42
I love you my brother. I really do. I love you to death. Alright my friend.

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